Karim & ClockKey -- Please stop replying to this thread unless you are providing suggestions on how to improve the idea.

Quivuq -- In the original idea, stating AB could simply have been saying there is none, although I have edited the main post to reflect the main idea I am geared towards.

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Thank you everyone for your thoughts on this so far!

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Since you changed it to only an end date now, I guess I could support it. I could probably dish up some problems but my brain is pooped out :u

Though, I believe If you're gonna back out of an auction, You should contact the Owner before punishment, And/or the staff if they control it. Ya know, Like you needed your currency for an emergency and couldnt pay for the auction? :D

Sorry for leaving the non-support side, Sherlock Karim! xD

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I still feel that auctions are everyone's own responsibility, regardless of outcomes. I feel that there is no need for admin involvement as it is stated in their terms that they do not deal with money unless it comes from Sales or Trading, "Main site hubs". I do not think there should be a repercussion for pulling out, as in real life if someone were to pull out of a sale they would not be penalized.

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ClockKey -- If you need to back out of an auction, perhaps you could PM the owner. I'll edit that into the main thread.

Karim -- Gifs are not helpful towards the discussion.

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Admin edit - due to content not allowed on Lioden: please don't discuss other web-browsing sim games!

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Silas -- Actually, in real life, bids are legally binding. There are two types of auctions in the United States: absolute and reserve. Absolute auctions must sell to the highest bidder, regardless of price. Reserve auctions must sell to the highest bidder once the reserve price (the minimum you would accept) is past. On Ebay, all bids are binding as well except for extreme cases such as the inability to verify the authenticity of the seller, entered extremely wrong bid amount (although some places require you enter a correct bid when you retract), or the item has changed severely. You cannot withdraw simply because you changed your mind.

As Thal said, auctions have become a big thing. They are probably as common as quicksales, if not more common, since stats and markings are so wildly valued. With that in mind, we need to start taking them more seriously and putting penalties in place for those who don't.

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Auctions are supported; the Trading Center is just that c: If you have a lion that you want to be sold, set an autobuy and see what offers you get. Imagine all of the time it would take to maintain such a large auctioning system. Yes, this site is big, and yes we have more staff now, but there is still limits to how easy things are to implement. Hell, Xylax didn't even have enough time to put Jolly Poses out on time (or when he wanted). Imagine having to revamp an entire auctioning system and to monitor it.

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I did not specify auctions, now did I? I said a Sale. In a sale, the owner may pull out. In an auction, you are still technically "selling" an item, no? I don't see why I should be penalized for wanting to pull out anything from an auction (cubs, decor, you name it). I own it, I am legally still bound to those items. I have not put my items in a hub where the system takes a hold of it.. it is still sitting in my den, eating my food and playing with my lion. It is still mine.

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Silas -- No, the TC is a ghost of an auction house, if that. You cannot set a starting bid, minimum increase, maximum increase, end time, or any of the other details required. I'm not asking for them to code an entire Auction House tomorrow. I'm asking them to police the auctions, which have become increasingly popular and are being used inappropriately. Adding a rule to the ToS and implementing it is much easier than the coding and would be a step in the right direction for now. It might be some work, but things require work if they are to keep improving.

You might not have specified auction, but that is what this thread is discussing. Yes, an auction is a specific type of "sale" but it is a beast of it's own and has rules created specifically for it.

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What I am hearing and seeing is a minority wanting justice for being wronged by "inappropriate" owners. This is still focused on the buyers, when it should be focused on both. I would suggest not allowing a penalty for pulling out, but rather just an explanation of why. However, I think if in the terms of an auction it is clear whether or not they have the rights to pull out, then it is completely fine to pull out. As stated, everyone should be responsible for themselves. From a quote that I love so much, "You get what you get and you don't throw a fit"

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I will neither support or non-support from now on, Only to see if anyone brings up any good points, Then I'll decide :D

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Silas -- This is not a minority wanting justice. I've never suffered in an auction, but I rarely use them because of the poor practices that take place. I edited in that the bidder must inform the seller if they back out, but that their bid remains valid if they don't. If their bid is the winning bid and they failed to inform the seller that they backed out, a penalty can be incurred. This is not me being sour because I've been screwed over. This is not me wanting to make things difficult. This is me wanting things FAIR.

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If things were fair, everyone would have the same lions, same stats, same freedoms. I don't seem to see my 5000+ stat lion anywhere, do you? So far, as I can tell, Auctions are fair. Both parties are responsible for their own. If they do not like the auction outcome, as I've said, they can just take it elsewhere. I just think that if you add in penalties, then no one will want to auction anymore.

However, I think my point has been stressed, so to each their own.

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Silas -- ......what? Fair as in having rules in place to ensure things work properly. All sales and games and everything have rules to make things run as fairly as possible without completely leveling the playing field. Baseball has rules to keep things fair, but you don't see them doing their best to make every player have the same pitch speed and batting average do you?

To each their own.

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Here's my personal problem with end dates. There are players on this game who can only be on at certain times and there are real life circumstances that can pull a player away from being there AT an end date. Having repercussions for not closing an auction is frankly ridiculous. The end time could roll by and the seller could be in the hospital for all you know, which in my case is a very real situation. Now, I KNOW I'm not the only one who plays this game often because I have the time thanks to health problems, but it's that exact reason that sometimes I can't be on. It's WHY I play lioden. I can do things at my own damn pace. Wanting to start an auction and then being bed-ridden for a day and ending up missing the end time and getting a penalty doesn't just add annoyance, it adds stress and disdain.

I understand that some people intentionally never close but at the same time, I believe that's their right. If they feel they may sell better with an extended auctioning period that is their right. If they feel the person with the highest bid may be shady and they don't wish to sell to them, that is their right. If they decide they simply don't want to part with the cub because of a rare mark or mutation and they have second thoughts, that is also their right. They bred the cub. Until that cub changes hands, it's ultimately their decision what happens with the cub. Unlike the seller, the buyer has a more difficult time scamming. They don't have false bids or anything like that. The bidder may be disappointed or upset or whatever but in the end they didn't lose money. It's annoying when you don't win too, should we make a system that everyone wins the item in auction? Of course not. Sometimes nobody wins. But in the end, it reflects the seller more than anything and really it's the seller's loss as they lose a bit of reputation.

But if lioden starts pushing penalties and time limits I'm out. I think we should wait to see if an auction house is implemented. But messing about with the way a forum works is pointless. You're essentially trying to implement an auction house without an auction house, which would take WAY more work because you'd have to alter the forums for JUST auctioning, and unfortunately there isn't just an auctioning forum. There's sales. Adding an auctioning forum is no different than an auction house.

Also. I believe a person should be allowed to cancel their own auction at any time. Same as the sales. Just 'cuz there's an offer, doesn't mean they can't cancel and refuse the offer. People have second thoughts. It's just human, especially in a game that has set rarity factors on things.

Sorry but no support. This idea I'm just not comfortable with in any angle.

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