Posted by -LOCKED - Community Input on Challenge/Paperclip Trades

Katze (#3)

Heavenly
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 09:33:32
Hi, everyone!

As mentioned within August 12th's Community Update news, we are aware that part of the community dislikes challenge/paperclip trades appearing in the Trading Center. One particular topic has had a fair bit of discussion from both sides:
* ⚔️TwoSwordsClash⚔️ (#122111), "Outlaw "joke" trades of 1 SB"

Our stance has generally been that the Trading Center is a player-run "free market". Part of the reason for this is that you, the players, determine the value that items and other assets hold over time. Players are free to try to sell or trade their assets at whatever value they choose, and other players are free to decide whether or not they accept that value.

When it comes to moderating challenge/paperclip trades, the main question is: where do we draw the line? At what value does a trade become more than just a paperclip trade? If an arbitrary value is set, then trades will simply be created at a value just above that. If it becomes a matter of simply disallowing any trades entitled "What can I get for _____?", then we essentially remove open-ended offer-based trades.

We understand that a big concern is how they flood the Trading Center and push legitimate trades out of view, though we have never moderated the amount of trades any one player can post at one time, or how many of a certain type of trade can exist at the same time.

As you can see, moderating these trades isn't a cut-and-dried solution, much as we wish it were.

Potential Solutions
* We could add the ability to conveniently and instantly hide trades under the "Recent Trades" and "Search Results" listings for trades, without needing to click to view the actual trade, and without needing to block the trade's creator. An additional "Hidden Trades" section could be added to the Trading Center interface in case a trade is hidden by mistake.
* There could be an additional option to "Hide All Trades By This Player", as well. This could act as a "soft block" which only prevents you from seeing certain trades, and still allows you to interact with the trade creator.
* We could implement a new Stockpile subforum category for "Challenge Trades", where players would be encouraged to advertise their challenges. Players could then set up private trades if they end up receiving a buyer for their trade, rather than publicly listing their trades in the Trading Center beforehand. The downside of this option is then moderating what does and does not belong within that subforum, needing to cancel/remove any publicly-listed challenge trades, and determining what falls under a challenge trade to begin with.

We would ideally like to hear whether or not this is something you think might provide added value for you when using the Trading Center. Additionally, if you have thoughts on other possible (manageable) solutions or suggestions on how this type of system could be improved, we're open to hearing these as well. Keep in mind that any solutions tied to moderation would require hard-set definitions that not all players may see eye to eye on.

To further clarify: We want your input on how exactly we rule this type of trade - where is the line? Why isn't my 1 SB trade open for any offers allowed? It's a legitimate trade, I am offering something in exchange for an offer. Why would it be considered begging or a challenge/paperclip trade? What if it was 5 SB instead of 1? 10 instead of 5? Who determines whether I'm asking to trade up by offering 1 SB for a Large Leaf?

In order to moderate things like this efficiently, we need a concrete determined set of rules about what constitutes a challenge trade. That's what we need your help with.

If we implement the second Trading Center idea that some people are suggesting, how do we determine that a trade in the "regular" Trading Center isn't just a misplaced challenge trade? This is the conundrum we're having.

This topic will remain open for two weeks, and will be locked on Friday, August 26th, 2022. Once it is locked, our admin team will review it for potential ideas and solutions. We will post an update on the situation as soon as we are able to work one out, if one can be worked out at all—and if we decide not to pursue these trades, we will announce this as well.



This suggestion has 519 supports and 40 NO supports.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Edited on 12/08/22 @ 10:03:48 by Katze (#3)

Dante ~ Project King
[Main] (#80013)

Impeccable
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 10:50:34
@Rufus agreed.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Michael (#16)

Famous
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 10:51:40
@Jenday: Unfortunately, that is not possible without having a phrase to include in the search terms. As stated in my post, the search can't show you all trades that don't contain a specific word or phrase, they have to be filtered down first. E.g., "Show me all trades that have (some phrase) but do not contain (ignore phrase)." In which case that's already possible to do using the search box.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Adam (#169289)

Renowned
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 10:52:26
I agree jungkook. Trying to sell thing in tc has been like pulling teeth for a bit



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Anne (BO Sidereal)
🇵🇸 (#61013)

Deathlord of the Jungle
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 10:53:13
I agree with Rufus again and I'm off too.

My last opinion on this topic is to just ban these challenges and mods can handle at least the TC flagging if it's implemented, if players do break these rules. It'll get worst in months where there are valuable items, GMOs, buffies, etc... that'll be all. Hoping off this thread hhh



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Dante ~ Project King
[Main] (#80013)

Impeccable
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 10:57:22
@Anne agreed.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Kam 🐾 (Quitting) (#166463)

Protector
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 10:58:39
I don't think the soft-blocking option is a good option... Every time I see these trades, that's another person I would have to "soft-block", and eventually, with seeing so many of these challenges daily, it would be very tedious to soft-block every person's trades. Plus, what if you end up soft-blocking someone's trades, but they are also selling assets that you're actually looking for? Then I would feel like I'm missing out on more than just Paperclip/Challenge trades.

I personally think that either the new Subfourm (Preferred, but I understand that there could be difficulties with this), or making these challenges be hidden in some way would be a good idea. I'm personally so tired of seeing these challenges in the TC when I'm trying to actually buy stuff off of there lmao... But, to be honest, while I'm putting my two cents in, I just feel like these trades should just be banned all together, since it is pretty much disguised begging, especially is they're asking for assets that are valued more than what they're offering. But I am willing to stick with people doing that as long it's just out of the Trading Center, that way maybe I can just enjoy myself and browse without having to search for every asset I want. I thought that begging for assets we're banned anyway??

But anyways, if the staff does decide to keep trades such as these, I really have to agree with that MadHyena was saying. There should be some type of minimum on what a person can offer before asking for something (Say like a minimum of 10SB, 100SB, etc. Honestly, just nothing that is under 10SB. There really isn't any items on Lioden that are of value of 10SB or less. 10-100SB, for sure there are items that can be valued within that range.) Also, having users watch what they're saying in a title. Saying "10SB to Leopon" is a very unrealistic trade. Instead, saying "10SB to Nesting Material" (Valued 60SB) is WAY more better and manageable That way, it doesn't really seem like a person is outright begging anymore. And if the person wants to keep going further with these trades, then they can take that Nesting Material, for example, and post it in another trade saying "Nesting Material to Toy Bundle". That trade is still decently reasonable (This was just be kind of being a devil's advocate though, I am still pretty adamant on wanting these types of trades just banned)

I keep seeing the Lioden community growing bigger everyday, and I feel like the whole Paperclip/Challenge trades just encourages not only the newer people to beg, but also people who have been on here for years as well. And it kind of sucks for the other players who grind and work to make their own profit to see other's begging lmao



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?


Edited on 12/08/22 @ 11:07:59 by Kam [2G Elysian 11BO] (#163483)

BlackDogsCurse (#6810)

UwU
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 11:00:24
A separate stockpile forum sounds like the best option to me personally.

I mean, I don't mind the trades myself- but that is just my personal opinion. I don't do those trades, but I do help some out when I can. So, I mean in any case scenario it doesn't really affect me.
But, it would make it easier to find them if they were just a separate forum altogether and to help keep them out of circulation of the normal TC.

The only thing I can see with the soft blocks is, that you will then be missing out on other trades- that isn't the 1sb/paperclip challenge. So, unless you're also willing to miss out on those trades- then soft blocking could work.
I don't really have an opinion about the first option as - I don't know exactly what that means.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

lilac <33|g6
tovero x2 ros (#267143)

Bone Collector
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 11:09:45
i personally thing the subforum idea would work best here :3



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

🎃 Jen
O'Lantern 🎃 (#177530)


View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 11:10:43
I agree with Kam- Blocks dont work. I have a huge block list atm and it doesnt solve the issue because its so many players doing it. It also gets in the way of a lot of gameplay because the players I can interract with is reduced.
I also agree that the biggest problem is with trades blatantly and openly asking for more than theyre offering in their own words or similar phrasing. I dont think its too harsh to add "specifically asking for generosity/greater value in trades" to the definition of begging.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Maro 🇵🇱 (G2
Scoundrel Ferus) (#167078)

Warrior
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 11:15:39
I think the option to hide trades would be really helpful not only in this case. Sometimes when I searched for lions I got confused what trades I already checked and what are to check. There are so many trades in TC, some sorting, hiding and marking tools would be really useful!
And to solve the problem with spam trades, the option to hide everything from a certain player or keyword would be the best for me.
I really like the fact that in this game we have free decisions about creating trades and we do not need to think about every word and items, we just do what we want. Also, making many trades with the same title shouldn't be banned too.
Some people still enjoy "what can I get for..." trades, so I think the best thing lioden can do is to give more control for individual players about what they see on their screens and what they want to hide, instead of making some new rules.

Like, some people didn't like the brawl marking set, so instead of throwing the brawl away, we got the option to hide it, and thats okay!



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Corruptedhyena (#243378)


View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 11:26:21
Personally, I am down for a new stockpile thread.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Shadow (Main) (#73284)

Maneater
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 11:32:35
I would also like to put my suggestion of a new area of the Trade Center called "Challenge Trades" this would be where all trades would be that is considered a challenge trade.

To me a challenge trade should be labeled as "Challenge - X SB/GB to X Item/Lion" and the only thing you can add in to the name in that section of the tc would be the amount of SB/Gb (check box to mark it) and type in an item/lion you want. then you put your offer and leave it open to the public. I think these should also have a lower expire time which could be half the normal tc time (so 15 days).

This way the forums won't be clogged and the normal TC won't be clogged as well.

Just my thoughts. I have never seen these as a huge issue. The only reason it is seen as an issue is because they have popped up in such a huge way that others feel its needed to have them blocked. But like i have stated before "Where does the line get drawn?"



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Chat Noir (#38732)

Magnificent
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 11:33:29
I feel like the most reasonable method would be adding a new tab to the trade center, like the raffles. That way people who have fun with these games have an area to do their own thing. It might not stop people from putting it in regular trade center, which is where I think the "hide trade" idea would be useful.

I hate the idea of it being applied to all of a players trades though. If they have one or two "joke" trades and a few legitimate ones, but you block all of them, then they are still missing out on potential trades the same way as if they were blocked entirely. Let us just hide the ones we don't want to see, joke trade or not. I can see the mechanic being useful to sort through legitimate trades too. Maybe someone is looking for something specific (like clean heritage which is not searchable/able to filter) and after looking at the trade and determining it isn't what they want being able to hide it so it doesn't keep showing up every time they try to look.

If people want a new forum, that's easy to add in. But I really like and want to use the hidden trades idea.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

carpside (#235695)

Divine
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 11:34:13
I don’t understand why everyone is so against these trades. Personally, I don’t mind them, since I’ve seen a handful of successful ones and I donate where I can. It just doesn’t seem like that big of an issue, and I feel like blocking or banning the trades is a huge overreaction.



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?

Bailey (#245186)

Astral
View Forum Posts


Posted on
2022-08-12 11:35:22
Would this apply to the “what can I get for x gb?”? Cause I’ve done it simply to see what I can get and I’m not entirely sure what I can get for said amount of gb. I do see the frustration with the 1 sb trades, but would gb apply under that as swell?



Hrt Icon 0 players like this post! Like?



Topic is locked




Memory Used: 672.02 KB - Queries: 2 - Query Time: 0.00034 - Total Time: 0.00663s