Brown is close enough to being Black; Glacial however is nowhere near anything like Black.
It still wont make sense if it was made Black Iridescent Special because it's not black.
Iridescent, however, can include full color of the rainbow by very definition of the word, and it makes much more sense to call a Glacial an Iridescent Light Special.

You have liked this post!

I could support it as a new gradient ONLY. Solid, Countershaded, and Iridescent. And only for colors that are really really bright, like glacial or cinnabar. It's hard enough trying to get some of these special breed-only bases to pass as it is.

You have liked this post!

Glacial fits well enough next to Ice, Maltese, and Slate, which are all also in the Black group, so therefore Glacial logically fits in the Black group. Why just throw all the weird colors together?? That doesn't solve anything.

You have liked this post!

That solves the problem of weird colors being scattered all across other color groups and therefore being "weird" in there. xD If they had their special color group they'd stop being weird - they'll start being Iridescent.

I stand by my opinion; Shading group is a simple solution, but it's hardly the best one.

You have liked this post!

I always thought the current color groups were based of real life hair color categories - Blonde being Golden, Brunette being Cream, Redhead being Red and Greys being Black.

Iridiscent isn't a color on itself, but a quality - meaning that something reflects the colors of the rainbow depending on the angle you're seeing -, which is why I think it's best suited as either a Shade or Gradient. As a Gradient Iridiscence would be the easiest, most harmless way to be introduced, as the bases aren't moved from where they are already and it doesn't meddle with the shades after people had to adapt to the Medium shade already. There are some bases that have an iridiscent quality to them, like Nacre and Teardrop, and then some that could be qualified as that for lack of a better thing. The base clasiffication makes more sense as it is right now that just dumping all the bright/unnatural/doesn't-exactly-look-that-it-belongs bases in a brand new color group; how would their breeders cope with a Cinnabar being able to sprout a Lilac or a Maltese? We only need to introduce some wild bases to players have access to the Iridiscent gradient without having to rely on applicators or other player's lions, and see what current bases would look right at home in the Iridiscent gradient. Then whoever wants to breed for solid, countershaded or iridiscent lions only needs to gather lions with it, and players won't despair as much at a "plain" or "too bright" cub being born.

You have liked this post!

I agree with Typhon, Cin and Berenos; I don't want to breed an ice base to a celestial base and have a cinnabar or green cub pop out - that would be very random and very frustrating (I already hate the randomness of albino base, nevermind random rainbow lions when I'm aiming for a specific base). I think I like it as it stands - pinks are cream, greens are gold, blues and purples are black and orange is red. I definately like the idea of these crazy color bases being seperated from the true creams, golds, blacks and reds. My only issue with adding iridescent to the shade group is: aren't some of the crazy colors solid (cinnabar) and aren't some of the crazy colors countershaded (ice) seems a waste to stop defining them as such.

You have liked this post!

Exactly. It doesn't make much sense to "solve" the problem of bases not quite fitting into a specific color group by adding all of them to another group where they still don't really fit together. (Blue with reds together and with cream and green too? Haha, no. I'm not buying it and I'm sure others won't go for it either.) That makes even less sense than the way it is now.

Much better as a gradient or another category, as Tale suggested. Say what you want, but that was honestly one of the best new ideas I have seen so far on this thread. And I mostly agree with what Cin said. I also fail to see how it would be helpful at all with any breeding projects. It's only going to isolate them from their previous genetics group and cause all kinds of problems like not being able to breed the bases we want from certain lions we already have, and etc. That's crazy.

I also have another idea though... There is more than one way to solve a problem. The main reason I see people wanting to add it as a new genetics group is that the current colors don't fit with that label. Try to look at this from a business perspective... If a label doesn't fit with a product, you don't change the product, that would be silly and way too costly, instead you change the label.

What if we just renamed the color groups so they are more fitting to what is in each group, instead of making a new one just because they don't fit with that label? If we renamed Black to something like "Cool", Cream could be "Neutral", and Golden seems fine to me but could be changed to something if need be, and Red could be like "Warm" or something? They don't have to be these exact names, keep that in mind. I'm just saying that if the issue is some bases not fitting with their group, it makes more sense to just change the labels for the groups than to start moving things around unnecessarily and ruining people's projects that they have worked very hard on. If the labels are really such an issue, then maybe they should be changed.

Or, as an alternative, we could just accept the fact that not everything is going to exactly fit into a neat little box and that some of the bases might be a bit of a stretch, as far as being a perfect fit for their color group, and learning to be ok with that because it has been working just fine so far. (And they actually do make sense, see Oswin's point below...)

You have liked this post!

I feel like this might have been mentioned before, but in cat coat genetics blue is actually a dilute/modification of the black gene, so having the blues and such in the Black color group (and some colors that don't seem to 100% "fit" in the others) actually makes a degree of sense. Obviously there's a degree of change and stuff with the really bright colors, but I just thought I'd put my two cents in. That being said, I do like the idea of a gradient/shade to go with Countershaded and Solid if anything; that way, things can stay mostly in the groups that they're in, which hopefully won't muck up breeding projects too badly, and will also give people who want it a way to separate out the really bright colors from the more natural ones.

You have liked this post!

This is my one last push for iridescent being its own brand new category - or rather my last reason. I feel that if we add iridescent to the shades group it could greatly reduce the variety of bases that some kings/queens can pass of their offspring - unlike medium (which as much as we complain about it maintains the variety by being able to throw both dark and light bases). I would like to see iridescent as it's own category because then it would only reduce the variety of the cubs if the player so desired.

For example: Ice x Ebony

Ice: black dark iridescent special
Eboy: black dark solid special
With this pairing you would no longer be able to get countershaded bases from this pair (i.e. slate), you'd only ever get iridescent or solid bases. Personally that's disappointing to me.

Ice: iridescent black dark countershaded special
Ebony: subtle black dark solid special
With this pairing you could get both countershaded (slate) and solid (onyx) bases as well as iridescent bases. If you didn't want the iridescent base then you could simply breed the ebony to a slate instead but if you wanted the potential of both you could breed to the ice. If that makes any sense to anyone else.

You have liked this post!

That's a good point, it just doesn't outweigh the overcomplication issue for me personally.

You have liked this post!

I agree with Cin. It's a good idea in theory, but in practice it just seems way too overcomplicated

i personally think, like Myr said a few pages back, changing too much stuff all at once is definitely going to piss many people off. It isn't quite fair to change entire groups, which effect everyone, rather than just changing Inferno to Red which just fucked over a handful of people.

Making it a new shading would mess a few things up yeah, but not as bad as entire groups hopping. And to agree with people a few pages back, there's no way i can see Green, ice, and cherry blossom together in a group

You have liked this post!

I still don't understand how adding a category complicates things? It basically just maintains the breeding algorithm as it is now while adding the ability to exclude rainbow colors or to breed specifically for rainbow colors should you so choose. I mean it makes the genetic text longer but it doesn't move any bases, it doesn't reduce variety, it wouldn't even impact people who choose to ignore that category (the same way that neutral personalities allowed people to ignore the new personality system when those were added). You can argue that the personalities complicated things but in the long run they didn't really change anything unless the players wanted them to. That's just my point of view, though.

You have liked this post!

I think maiq explained it best in this post. It would in a way move bases because we would need a new dimension. Like if we took away countershaded and solid for example that would make the system much simpler, instead of two rows of bases (not counting the separation of common and special), there would be one. With adding a new category, each color group will have four rows (eight if you count common vs special). Now the readability of the wiki doesn't matter, I'm just using that to illustrate how it will complicate things. There will be a lot more categories added when compared to the categories added with adding it as a gradient. I didn't explain this well lol. Look at Maiq's post :P

You have liked this post!

I saw Maiq's post but I still don't think that it overcomplicates anything, if anything I just adds an extra level of organization. That's just how I see it, though. I understand everyone sees things differently. I'm only advertising for the new catagory because I feel, in the long run, it would be the least detrimental to base breeding projects without changing base catagories. Otherwise I would want iridescent to be like medium where it could throw either solid or countershaded in order to preserve breeding projects and base diversity but I know that this would also make the bright colors rarer and would break a lot of hearts.

You have liked this post!

I can totally see the benefits of having it as a separate entity like you’re suggesting, but the amount of people I see or speak to who are completely confused over the current system of common and various specials means I think this would just be a further level of complication that a lot of casual/new players are going to struggle to understand and work with.

There are already a lot of layers of categories and things to know with bases. Shades, gradients, colour groups, rarity. Then there’s ways of getting those bases (i.e. apps, breeding, super specials, what combinations will produce what bases, etc). Plus the recent combo bases which are another recent thing I see a lot of questions about.

From a purely personal perspective I think your idea would be great Tale - I understand the current system, and I wouldn’t mind an extra layer. But overall I think it could just become overwhelming for a lot of players, especially those unused to genetics systems in general and the quirks of LD's system in particular.

You have liked this post!