I definitely agree that Red, Cream and Gold need attention first- but I'd like to point out that it's only Black Counter shaded that is over indulged. Black solid has only one raffle base and no event bases at all. There is one more proposed base for black solid special, but seeing as its a gem base if Iridescent goes through solids will probably loose that one.

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This is why I'm starting to lean towards irridecent getting it's own catagory, i.e. irridecent or subtle. That way no base stops being whatever it is now it just gets an extra catagory to help organize. It would seperate the "crazy" colors from the more subtle colors without obliterating current breeding projects. It would also allow for common irridecent bases and it would let the staff focus on fluffing out the other base colors/shades.

Example;
Slate = subtle black dark countershaded special
Ice = iridescent black dark countershaded special

Iridescent + iridescent = iridescent
Subtle + subtle = subtle
Subtle + iridescent = 50% subtle, 50% iridescent

Of course even this would put a mild kink in breeding projects but I don't think it would hurt too badly since 50/50 subtle/iridescent is pretty decent odds.

Thoughts?

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Tale, that idea is really thinking outside of the box. I love it! I'm fine with slightly hindering breeding projects, I just don't want them to be totally wrecked. I think adding a third category would help make things a lot more balanced. Even if some bases had to move categories I don't see that causing many major problems when it comes to breeding. Since breeding is so important to most players, I have to go with that one. I think it's even better than adding it to the gradient categories.

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To go along with the Iridescent and Subtle categories, maybe there could be another rare one called 'Shiny' or something, kind of like Special bases work but with categories, if that makes sense? (Or not lol, just throwing out ideas.) Or it could be, in order of rarity, Subtle > Shiny > Iridescent with Iridescent being the rarest one. Could possibly make it a little more fun by including a rare one for people to try for.

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I think adding a fifth category to all the bases is way over complicating things. I'll still only support this idea as a third Gradient and nothing else.

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That would be ok with me too honestly. I will be fine, as long as it's not added as a full genetics group. In that case, I would most likely ragequit. xD

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Personally I think that this would simplify things. It wouldn't change the breeding algorithm and it wouldn't mean rearranging any bases - I mean it's more "complicated" in the way that it add an extra word to the genetics text but that is about it.

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That is true.

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I'd love it to be a color group! Having all the bright and pastel "unnatural" colors be related makes more sense to me than, say, having purples and blues be Black and having pinks and green in other color groups.

It would really help with my breeding projects too, lol.

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Iridescent being added as a fifth group sounds more complicated to because of the number of bases it would take to make a "complete" set.

For example, adding iridescent as a Gradient would take six bases for a complete color:

Cream Light Iridescent Common
Cream Medium Iridescent Common
Cream Dark Iridescent Common
Cream Light Iridescent Special
Cream Medium Iridescent Special
Cream Dark Iridescent Special

While adding it as a fifth label would take double the bases for a complete color:

Iridescent Cream Light Countershaded Common
Iridescent Cream Medium Countershaded Common
Iridescent Cream Dark Countershaded Common
Iridescent Cream Light Countershaded Special
Iridescent Cream Medium Countershaded Special
Iridescent Cream Dark Countershaded Special
Iridescent Cream Light Solid Common
Iridescent Cream Medium Solid Common
Iridescent Cream Dark Solid Common
Iridescent Cream Light Solid Special
Iridescent Cream Medium Solid Special
Iridescent Cream Dark Solid Special

Times that by all four colors. While some of the special bases already exist it would still be a ton of work for Xylax between when a change was decided upon and when it could be done. I think a Gradient would be better.

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I would really rather it be just a new color group, though I think being a group would work with the proposed boost. My main problem is whether or not I'd still be able to use NCL bases (if needed) to help pass my cinna if the number I have starts to drop

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Another reason why I think new Color Group would be better than new Shading Group:

-It'd solve the issue of "unfitting" bases. Like Cherry Blossom is arguably not Cream, it's pink, and Green is not Golden, it's well green, and Ice is not black, it's light blue. The criteria by which these bases belong to their color group is simply "there's no better fitting one" - Iridescent would be such a group able to fit all bases that dont really belong in other groups. Iridescent as a word means "many colors" so it'd be a perfect color group for such bread crumbs scattered around all other color groups.

It'd allow a much better sorting for "unfitting" colors. So Black wont anymore include blue, Cream wont include pink, and so forth. It may be a little work for users to re-arrange their breeding projects to it but in the end, it will be a better system with less confusion about color belonging.

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Looking through these comments, I still think I prefer the idea of Iridescent being a shading/gradient group (as in, like Countershaded/Solid), although Tale's idea of introducing a new category could also work. And either of those also add the possibility of new gradients/base types being added in future as the number of bases in each category expands.

I was also thinking about the possibility of rearranging the colour groups if Iridescent were to be added as a gradient group to offset the number of Black bases, and I'm actually not sure on second thought if a Blue group would work (I'm not sure there would be enough bases to populate a whole group, let alone wild/NCL blue bases, and where would you draw the line between blue and grey? Would Hematite or Opal, for example, be better suited to Black or Blue?), but I think a Brown group could possibly work. For example, maybe Dikela, Dark Brown, Chestnut, Shedua, Sepia, Brass, Bronze, Brown, Rosy Brown, Vandal, Chocolate, Liver, Sapela, Sorrel, Sandy and Copper could be offloaded to Brown, freeing up space for more Black and Red bases and also perhaps simplifying breeding projects (since Red would be reserved only for red/reddish-brown/pink-purple bases and Black only for black/grey/blue bases, and I'd definitely find it a relief as a natural breeder to breed Sheduas/Sapelas without having to worry about Mauve/Maroon etc,. while I'm sure that likewise Black group breeders would be happy with their Ice x Ice breedings not throwing Dikela cubs). Other suggestions to even out the colour groups a bit more or make breeding easier could be to move Cherry Blossom to Red, Cremello and Fallow to Cream, Hallowed to Black and the upcoming Honey to Golden (it's currently listed on the wiki as Black which to me does...not seem to make sense).

The other question, whatever type of group Iridescent ends up being, is what exactly counts as an Iridescent base? I'd argue that Arctic, Glacial, Nacre, Cherry Blossom, Teardrop, Citrine, Topaz, Xanthic, Green, Cinnabar, Blazing, Angelic, Demonic, Labradorite and Rhodonite should definitely be Iridescent bases, but I'm more on the fence about, for example, Ice, Opal, Moonstone, Hematite, Nuummite, Fiery, Sunset, Inferno and Sulphur. (Unless all gem bases are by definition Iridescent?) But I'm sure there will be a lot of different ideas about what constitutes an "unnatural" or "colourbomb" base, like I'd be pissed if Fulvous or Goldenrod were moved to Iridescent (because to me those are natural bases, and I think you could make the same case for, for example, Skyward), but I'm sure there are natural breeders who'd say the same about Topaz.

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Okay but listen. Cherry Blossom and Green are not similar at ALL; they shouldn't be in the same group. Green is gold, it's got yellow tones. Cherry Blossom is Cream, it's got Cream tones. You can't just throw totally unrelated bases in the same group, that's not at all how genetics works. Green, Cherry Blossom, and Glacial look absolutely nothing alike, they aren't even mildly the same colors. Just because a base is a bright color doesn't mean it can't fit in the group it's already in. Ice, Glacial, Maltese are all blue and not Black, but Liver, Chestnut, Chocolate, and Black aren't Black either. They're brown. So are we gonna find somewhere else to put those, too?

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It just doesn't make any sense to me to have glacial, cinnabar, and green in the same color group.

Furthermore, there are too many bases that some might call iridescent (see Luna's post above). Are we just going by what's "unnatural"? Or "bright"? Xy says lilac would stay in black, but show me a picture of a lion with lilac fur? show me a henna lion? or an auburn lion? a sterling lion? When we vote for which bases go to this new color group there's gonna be a lot of people pissed at which ones get taken out. If we do a new gradient, it won't be such a drastic change for breeders but it will still separate "natural" and "unnatural" colors.

Also, the way the bright colors are ordered now make sense to me. Cherry blossom is pink with cream elements. The black color group tends to take brighter bases that are cool colors. Green in golden is a fucking one off from April Fools and Xanthic actually has a little green in it so now it's connected.

We want to come up with a solution that fucks the least people over, and I think the new gradient is the way to do it.

(also totally agree with Maiq about how having a new grouping for iridescent and natural would be too complicated)

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