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| Posted by | -LOCKED - Community Input on Challenge/Paperclip Trades |
 Katze (#3)  
Heavenly View Forum Posts  Posted on 2022-08-12 09:33:32 |
Hi, everyone! As mentioned within August 12th's Community Update news, we are aware that part of the community dislikes challenge/paperclip trades appearing in the Trading Center. One particular topic has had a fair bit of discussion from both sides: * ⚔️TwoSwordsClash⚔️ (#122111), "Outlaw "joke" trades of 1 SB" Our stance has generally been that the Trading Center is a player-run "free market". Part of the reason for this is that you, the players, determine the value that items and other assets hold over time. Players are free to try to sell or trade their assets at whatever value they choose, and other players are free to decide whether or not they accept that value. When it comes to moderating challenge/paperclip trades, the main question is: where do we draw the line? At what value does a trade become more than just a paperclip trade? If an arbitrary value is set, then trades will simply be created at a value just above that. If it becomes a matter of simply disallowing any trades entitled "What can I get for _____?", then we essentially remove open-ended offer-based trades. We understand that a big concern is how they flood the Trading Center and push legitimate trades out of view, though we have never moderated the amount of trades any one player can post at one time, or how many of a certain type of trade can exist at the same time. As you can see, moderating these trades isn't a cut-and-dried solution, much as we wish it were. Potential Solutions * We could add the ability to conveniently and instantly hide trades under the "Recent Trades" and "Search Results" listings for trades, without needing to click to view the actual trade, and without needing to block the trade's creator. An additional "Hidden Trades" section could be added to the Trading Center interface in case a trade is hidden by mistake. * There could be an additional option to "Hide All Trades By This Player", as well. This could act as a "soft block" which only prevents you from seeing certain trades, and still allows you to interact with the trade creator. * We could implement a new Stockpile subforum category for "Challenge Trades", where players would be encouraged to advertise their challenges. Players could then set up private trades if they end up receiving a buyer for their trade, rather than publicly listing their trades in the Trading Center beforehand. The downside of this option is then moderating what does and does not belong within that subforum, needing to cancel/remove any publicly-listed challenge trades, and determining what falls under a challenge trade to begin with. We would ideally like to hear whether or not this is something you think might provide added value for you when using the Trading Center. Additionally, if you have thoughts on other possible (manageable) solutions or suggestions on how this type of system could be improved, we're open to hearing these as well. Keep in mind that any solutions tied to moderation would require hard-set definitions that not all players may see eye to eye on. To further clarify: We want your input on how exactly we rule this type of trade - where is the line? Why isn't my 1 SB trade open for any offers allowed? It's a legitimate trade, I am offering something in exchange for an offer. Why would it be considered begging or a challenge/paperclip trade? What if it was 5 SB instead of 1? 10 instead of 5? Who determines whether I'm asking to trade up by offering 1 SB for a Large Leaf? In order to moderate things like this efficiently, we need a concrete determined set of rules about what constitutes a challenge trade. That's what we need your help with. If we implement the second Trading Center idea that some people are suggesting, how do we determine that a trade in the "regular" Trading Center isn't just a misplaced challenge trade? This is the conundrum we're having. This topic will remain open for two weeks, and will be locked on Friday, August 26th, 2022. Once it is locked, our admin team will review it for potential ideas and solutions. We will post an update on the situation as soon as we are able to work one out, if one can be worked out at all—and if we decide not to pursue these trades, we will announce this as well. |
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Lore (#216338)
Demonic View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 14:07:09 |
I really like the idea of a soft block option for individual trades or for all trades from a certain player. This is a feature that I would use outside of just this particular scenario as well to help me eliminate trades I have already looked at and decided against. I personally think that creating a new subforum for this kind of thing will only encourage it to continue, rather than letting it potentially die out on its own. Don't we already have a subforum for forum games?  0 players like this post! Like? |
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🌙Celeste⭐ (#307304)
Heavenly View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 14:11:41 |
That's the point though, if a rule is established that joke trades or challenge trades are no longer permitted on tc, it's not people being salty, it's people flagging a direct rule break at that point. There is nothing I know of worth 1sb you can't just sell to the monkey. The mods can determine if the trade is of fair value. I don't see people being upset about someone posting what they can get for a GB. Thats normal. 1sb to tigon is ridiculous and the community is overwhelmingly tired of seeing it, hence the topic. Flag based just seems easiest. If it doesn't belong, it goes? Easiest solution that makes the majority happy. If your trade is flagged by more than one person anyway, it probably was a bad/unfair trade... 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Fading Angel (G2 2k) [Frozen] (#81854) Holy View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 14:19:29 |
You haven't meant society 😅 there's so many people irl that would flagw hate very the heck they can on fb. Or close. Or whatever. There's no reason why the wouldn't do the same on a game lol. Humans love to make chaos. And yes monkey business gives you 1sb for stuff. Which is why it shouldn't be a problem to trade it off to someone else for 1sb or possibly more even then monkey business. I don't like the whole high value only trades. I do agree those need to stop. But lowball is no better then the over priced stuff we have had going on for years 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Servmouche (#221573)
Total Chad View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 14:20:38 |
imo i think the best solution would be a separate tab similar to raffles or gb trades. i think somebody already mentioned this 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Grookey [G2 5K Ferus Haze RLC] (#170712) Maneater View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 14:23:12 |
I like the sub forum idea as it means that the trading center won’t be unnecessarily filled with them — HOWEVER, I can see how people could find issue with those topics being spammed in the ‘recent activity topics’ section. Would it be possible to have the new sub forum, but add a feature to block them from out ‘recent activity’ sidebar to avoid this if we want? I also think filtering out words on the TC could work too; just how we can search for certain phrases, if we could block certain phrases that’d be cool. For instance, “search for trades that include: hybrid: ignore trades that include: challenge” 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Servmouche (#221573)
Total Chad View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 14:29:09 |
reading other posts, i think softblocking or filtering out might not be as good as having a separate tab like gb trades/raffles/etc because sometimes the word filter still can’t catch everything. softblocking covers ALL of a persons trades rather than just their paperclip trades. to back up word filters not catching everything, sometimes i’ll search food and then i’ll go to the recent trades and more trades will pop up with food in them rather than when i had just searched food 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Sorrelli (#47698)
King of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 14:56:38 |
Implement a better search/filter option that can eliminate these posts that folks find annoying. It would be nice to remove the ones that are also selling for 99999999 etc. Shorten the expiration time down to 7 days. If no one buys my trades after 5 I usually just kill/chase/or discard stuff. Would you also consider making a 'Bump All" button under manage trades so that I don't have to go through all of mine to rebump? 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Corruptedhyena (#243378)
View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 15:04:28 |
i do have a problem with banning 1sb challenges all together. While it can be annoying in TC, there isnt anything wrong with them. i dont think it should be considered begging. first off, as i understand, the word begging means constantly asking for something for free or discounted even if they present the answer as no. I beleive this challenge isnt begging at all. all it is doing is asking for something of equal or more value. if we consider begging as asking for something in general, then that means that all the trades should be considered begging. I understand them being annoying, but in the end there is no harm. i definately suggest a seperate place for them, but i dont see a reason to ban it all together. I also feel that there arent many people who actually sit in the trade center and just look at all the trades popping up. If anything, when people go to the trade center, they are either selling something, or going to buy something specific. Cause of this, search filters are used, meaning they wouldnt be looking at anything but what they want anyways. For those who might be unfamiliar, this is usually how 1sb challenges work (not all are like this): ---i take 1 sb asking for something of equal or more value. Someone comes and offers 100 sb on my trade. I accept the trade and put teh 100sb back up for trade, asking for 100sb or more value. Tis continues until i am able to get whatever the goal is (hybrid/app/etc.) I can see a problem with someone straight up asking for their goal for 1 sb, but most dont work like this. Banning these not only discourages people from trying unique things like this, but also stops people who want to help them out from doing so. A good example of this challenge can be found here (on teh 2nd post): https://www.lioden.com/topic.php?id=304429449022 (plz note the 1st post is for something similar, but it is different in many ways) excuse the spelling :) 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Soul [they/them][Interste llar] (#301200) Deathlord of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 15:22:12 |
I think the soft block option would work best- though I'd also like to be able to hide individual trades as well, without entirely blocking a certain user's trades. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Bilby [next roll 21st? & 28th] (#22185) View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 15:23:28 |
The soft-block would be great to implement even outside of the context of the 1sb trades (and something similar for stud search, that resets once the hidden king is retired? Massive QOL improvement for me personally, and I suspect many others). But whatever works to ban or otherwise remove them from the experience of players who aren't specifically seeking to give away their items for essentially free (or at least heavily undervalued). I really appreciate that a solution is being sought, as it's been a major frustration for many players, with the sheer volume of trades being made. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Saff - Kimanjano (#137237)
King of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 15:24:50 |
I don’t really pay too much attention to these trades so I’m not bothered but I think a soft block in TC would be a good option and doesn’t create a ton more work for moderating. I should add it might be a good idea to add a time limit for the block rather then a permanent block. 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 12/08/22 @ 15:32:55 by Saff (#137237) |
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Poke'slashAlt (#281486)
King of the Jungle View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 15:50:00 |
I would love a softblock feature. Currently I block everyone who posts that type of trade. It's very frustrating to scroll past when there's a lot of them. Especially if the person posts multiple and bumped all their trades recently. Edit: A separate forum is also fine, to me. That way people can choose to view those trades if they feel like being generous. 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 12/08/22 @ 15:51:00 by Poke'slash (#281486) |
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Drakine (#65247)
True King View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 15:54:00 |
I think the best option here is the ability to hide trades. Even outside of the challenge things there's a lot of times where I don't want to see a specific player's trades without fully blocking them and I think this would be a good solution for multiple issues. 0 players like this post! Like? |
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Trust⛈️G1 Double Rose Ice (#219865) Sapphic View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 15:54:25 |
I agree with this poster. Adding search tools like some search engines utilize would help with this issue and many others. Like when I google "bobcat" and I don't want to see search results for bobcat heavy machinery, I search (without quotation marks) "bobcat -machinery" and while it isn't perfect, it will remove a ton of search results that are irrelevant to me. I am also very in favor of being able to minimize or hide trades! Oftentimes when I'm looking at potential heirs I have to re-sift through tons of vaguely named trades, so it would be dope if I could just hide ones I've considered and decided against altogether. I think a button to do this on the search results list and on the actual trade page would be ideal, so if it's a 1sb trade on the search results page that I want to hide I can hide it there, or if I go to the trade and decide I don't care for it I can hide it there without having to pick it out from the search results again. 0 players like this post! Like?Edited on 12/08/22 @ 16:02:24 by Trust🌒🐺 Double Rose Ice (#219865) |
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Zambz (#2687)
Bone Collector View Forum Posts Posted on 2022-08-12 16:02:19 |
I (personally) think handling these sort of similar to 'free studdings' and having rules for these sounds pretty fair tho I can't say on what the exact best way to handle it would bee as it seems to be a complicated issue. From what I've seen the biggest issues is the amount of them and how many offer 1 Sb which I think a lot of people equate with 0 SB as I don't think there's much if anything that is equal to 1 SB so it gets seen as 'begging' A LOT of these trades I've seen before and now say things like 'offer equal or higher value' or 'offer something worth a bit more' or 'good items' / 'donations' appreciated. Some even clearly offer say 1 GB and only want 2 GB in return. This to me sounds a lot similar to either thinly veiled or obvious begging as you would be specifically asking for donations or stuff worth more than what you offer. Adding a rule or similar that anyone doing these 'challenges / paperclip things are not allowed to 'beg' or specifically ask for things of greater value / asking for donations (or 'donations appreciated' and similar) and not allowing people to do things like for example offer 1 GB and want only the 'buyout' of 2 GB might be helpful and cut down on a lot of the more 'begging' type trades and there wouldn't need to be any sort of minimum. In my mind it would allow people to still put trades up, they just can't specifically request donations or higher value items which would be crossing into 'begging' territory. If someone thinks the trade is breaking the rules they can just report it and the mods/staff can determine if it IS breaking the rules just like anything else. not a perfect idea tho ofc but just how I see it lol 0 players like this post! Like? |
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