as a newer player, with nowhere near 365 days, raffle lions getting locked behind this would be really sad for me : ( i've kinged a couple lions between my main and side, and the first thing i do is grind as hard as i can to be able to get in on raffle lionesses,,

You have liked this post!

But it will be a second RL, not all RLs?

You have liked this post!

Yes there will be one available to ALL players and then a second for older players

You have liked this post!

You'd still be able to get a raffle lioness, it would just be a second raffle for older players.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for older players to be given a reward for sticking around so long

You have liked this post!

one of the options ( 3 ) was for raffle lionesses to be locked only to accounts with 365 rollovers, with only raffle studs available to anyone, which is more so what i'd be upset about!!

You have liked this post!

@Blondie, I apologize for not reading more into topic #3. I 100% see where your concerns are and very much agree with you.

It states that Special Raffle Lionesses will be locked to those who choose the stud option but those with 365 rollovers will have access to both I believe? Please correct me if I am wrong devs as to how this option would work.

You have liked this post!

I like options 1, 4, 5, and 6. I also like raffle studs, but not with locking the lioness.

Edit: also; dont like the wednesday idea. Im a busy adult and dont roll every day.

You have liked this post!

I like these options. I appreciate the idea of rewarding more active players. I do however agree with what shenanigans has said about missing rollovers. Sometimes life does happen. Maybe if they miss more than 2 rollovers a week? I try to at least RO everyday. But sometimes work gets the best of me and I'm just too exhausted or I'm away and don't have service all the time. But I support whatever the devs and community come up with!

You have liked this post!

Love the idea of a Raffle stud!!

You have liked this post!

Alright, I know it's late, my day was busy, but I'm here with the essay I promised this morning in chat. I also might update this as things go on.

My thoughts on Option 1: I don't like it very much. I think RLs would lose a lot of their spark if there were multiple of the exact same RL going out at the same time. Functionally, instead of an original RL being unique for the owner for forever, you'd really only have a short while to bask in having your RL before everyone else could have one, too. And with clones going around, I feel like Raffle lionesses would lose a lot of their prestige, not just their value, though the market would certainly tank, but rather having them would feel less rewarding. On a personal note, I also feel like this would push away from custom project lions or kings, in favor of more RLC kings that are, for lack of a better word, copy and pasted. But that's a personal gripe I have as someone who breeds for unique kings, and who loves seeing unique kings myself. Someone also noted in chat that even if a claim is failed and it goes back to the chased pool, would that stop people from deleting them by killing them in explore? I think this might create a sort of vigilantism problem with RL murdering in Explore.

My thoughts on Option 2: I like it slightly more than the first idea. The chances of getting an identical clone of the Rl/RLS in this scenario are low, but I do still prefer option 3 (I'll get there) and I can see the concerns of people with the what ifs of people getting full clones from the stud. I understand the concern. Also 365 days? Even as someone who has advocated for and still does advocate for an RL Rollover minimum, a whole YEAR of total rolls seems a bit much. Maybe lower it to 30 days, guys. (See concluding thoughts)

Option 3: THIS! This right here is THE idea. Yes! This. Again, not with the bonkers time limit lock, seriously, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water here, but for SIMILAR but NOT EXACT raffle studs? YES PLEASE! This would allow Raffle traits to spread, but Raffle lionesses to remain unique and collectible! This would also, if done well, take the stress off of RL holders, and even alleviate some of the stress about RLs going to dead accounts, since while that would certainly be a bummer, it's not like we might lose a new raffle base to an account that's never gonna roll again, only to have to wait some 4 months to see it again on an RL and hope and pray to the Lion Gods that it goes to someone active who's willing to spread the base.

Option 4: Again, I'm not really for multiple of the same lioness? Eventually, there will already be clones if it goes to an active account, so preparing for trouble and making it double doesn't seem like it'll help very much, and in fact, might actually hurt the RL market. I suppose for multiple DIFFERENT RLs a week, that COULD be something, but really, I don't think it would be particularly necessary.

Option 5: I'd like this, especially for lines where there are no clones of the lion anywhere. They could be put out like a re-release like how you'd do a normal RL again. I doubt that this will be a constant problem forever, at some point, you will run out of RLs on banned/closed accounts. Which will be a good thing. I do see the despair of RL revivers over this, so I will be adding a slightly different solution in my closing thoughts.

Option 6: Edited because apparently I can't read. I don't like this idea It seems good in practice, and the idea of boosting players who are active seems nice, but I prefer the flat odds, too. Even if 300-350 sb isn't that hard to come by, I just think that it wouldn't be necessary if other precautions were taken.

Option 7: Huh. I'm, not against this, actually? It might even create another market, reward longtime players, and push new players to become long term players. I'd want to stew on it for a bit more, and I might come back with some more thoughts later, but that's.. not terrible, actually? Could it be bi-weekly, instead of weekly?

-------------

Concluding thoughts.

I really think a secondary, non-identical raffle stud is the way forward. Also, I like the idea of limiting it to people who have rolled recently, but the Wednesday-Thursday roll seems a bit much. Same with the whole year of playtime for an RL, except potentially with a secondary RL, and don't worry, I'll get there in a bit.

I think an optimal solution for it going to active members would be a 30-31 day total roll requirement, COMBINED with having been active for at least 2+ days since the prior raffle lioness was drawn. I like the idea of an email notification, too. That seems like it might help keep a few cases from slipping though the cracks, and if it's not to hard, I'm all for it!

I think re-releasing some of the permanently locked RLs would be a nice treat, but out of respect for those who try and revive RL lines, I think a compromise could be combining this with the Raffle studs idea, that is, for at least a few of the raffle studs that aren't directly trying to push new traits, we could have those studs be clones of prior RLs that are frozen in the dungeon of lions on banned/closed accounts. Or maybe use these Revived studs as a chance to test out the stud system, and work out any kinks/see what people think of it.

BIG support on raffle studs. As someone who does a lot of Bo breeding, not having to worry about new Bo traits being locked behind a private line would be nice. Since frankly, harassing RL winners isn't fair to them. They have a RIGHT to keep the line private, but again, losing a really cool Raffle trait for some time just feels awful, especially for anyone who might want to breed a Project lion with those traits. This seems like the best of both worlds. A way for traits to breach containment, without so much pressure on RL winners to do all of the spreading by themselves at the start, and hopefully give more freedom to RL winners, and have them garner less harassment. I'm looking at YOU Lioden community, and every time you've harassed an RL winner that changed a base or held a private line.

And for my tiny PERSONAL side note, by Lion God, I wish we could do user-submitted Rls again I know why we can't, I know people were being entitled, I just wish we could submit our cool mock-up RL designs. Maybe as Studs or as cool Year+ playtime exclusives? Maybe we can be adults then????

On the topic of Year+ RLs (YRLs?) I do think those could be really cool, and an extra special way to reward active, long term players with cool lions. I mean, I'll personally weep for another way for people to ignore custom, hand-crafted lions and kings with massive Bo counts that are stupidly pretty and hard to make, but that's a me problem, and my niche doesn't have to be everyone's problem, no matter how much I'd love to make it that.

So yeah, those could be cool, and would also encourage newer players to become long-term players. It might even add a small spike to the economy, which I mean, I don't think that'll save it quite yet, but so as to not be shot in the Lioden square, I'm NOT going to talk economics here more than I have to.

-----
Edit log:
Edit for correction at misreading Option 6. (9 something pm, 8/5/24)
Edit First extra thoughts (9:39, 8/5/24)
-----
Extra thoughts #1
Re: Why does everything have to be about money, can't people just have pretty lions for the sake of it?
Not to sound like a big fat cat twirling a mustache and like, smoking a cigar or something with fancy aged whiskey in front of me on a desk, while I holler for my secretary, but guys, this is an ECONOMY Breeding pet sim type game. The economy is a big factor. And, again, to avoid being shot dead in the Lioden town square, I won't list articles about economics, or throw spreadsheets around and point to my board that has pictures and strings. Point being, I'm one of those people where I at least try to keep my thumb on the pulse of how the economy is doing. I might not have my hands in every single market, but I know what I know and I know people, if you know /lh

Frankly, it's about the Monetary value because that's what fuels this place. Some pretty lions need items to breed and those items ain't always cheap. A good economy means buyers and sellers are both secure and generally, both are able to sell and buy, and money flows through sections and niches and back around. The RLC market is already dying. It's shot on the sidewalk bleeding out this economies downfall. The solution is not to start stabbing it so it bleeds out faster. This isn't a mercy killing, it needs a hospital.

"Well, I can't afford a Clone otherwise, I have a real life and can't grind hardcore."

For fear of saying something vulgar, or Lion Gods forbid, needing someone to pardon my French, how do you think casual players afforded things in the before times? That's right, ding ding ding, someone has been paying attention to all those previous episodes of Mookie Rants Wildly About Economics Before Being Shot in the Neck with a Tranq Dart and Dragged Off Stage by the lizard people, it just so happens that times were better. Things sold. Things had value, and so, things could be sold for Lioden money, and Lioden money can be exchanged for Lioden goods and services.

I understand this part has been layered in comedy and fair few drops of snark, and that's because I don't expect anyone to ever really understand that a GOOD ECONOMY was good for EVERYONE. When things had value and sold, then people had money to buy things, so they did. Now everyone is too afraid to invest in anything, and all market sectors are crumbling, the Lioden DOW is down by-
---
For extra thoughts

You have liked this post!

I'm mostly fond of 3 as it will give a way for rarer slots to get out (not to sure what is meant at the end of it), as well as point 7. Very against point 1 as it kind of dilutes the rarity of the rl as well as the dreamboat aspect of getting a chance to win the raffle lioness.

You have liked this post!

FINALLY! Thank for finally opening a discussion about the Raffle ladies!
Please note that my opinions are based on the fact that I'm an struggling old player.

Option 1 - I love this, it sounds like a fun challenge to find and claim a Raffle lady in Explore.

Option 2 and 3 - I'm not really a fan of Raffle breedings, the possibility for potato cubs is way to high - unless there was a slight chance of a Clone cub, I'm not really for it.

Option 4 - I love this as it might give older players more of a fair chance at actually winning a Raffle Lady.

Option 5 - I love the re-release idea, I think that bring back some old originals would be awesome.

Option 6 - I'm on the fence with this one, it would potentially give more active players a chance at winning and make her less likely to end up on a dead/inactive accounts.

Option 7 - I love this as well, perhaps us oldies would have a real chance with this!

You have liked this post!

Some of these are great, but I feel like multiple releases (especially regarding the release via chased lionesses) might make RLs less rare, which would make raffle lionesses and rare marking slots less valuable!!

You have liked this post!

i would like to put my two cents in on this <3

im fully in support of sending out emails to rl recipients (this wasn’t a thing already???) and i think that’ll actually majorly reduce the chances she’ll go to an account that’ll never again see the light of day if they look at their email and see “oh shit i won the lottery” i’ll be real

what im not in support of is the weekly activity requirement though :/
things can come up, people have varying play styles, and i personally feel it’d be really unfair to a large portion of the player base. me personally, i have two accounts, and for some reason i play only on my side and don’t roll my main that often (don’t have the time to feed and play with everyone, can’t hunt for both prides, can’t get stud money for both prides, stalling out heats, what have you), but i roll over enough on there that i can go on once a week and try my hand at that week’s raffle lioness. depending on the week’s circumstances, that could eliminate like half of my chance to win her, and im not even talking about all of the other semi-frozen/freezer/weekend-rolling/people-who-have-lives accounts. just doesn’t seem like that system would be very considerate of people who are still very much so active :/
i mean, what’s gonna stop someone from rolling on wednesday, winning her on friday, and never getting on again? sure, it’d be less likely, but anything’s still possible ://

anywho moving on:
(SPEAKING AS A NOT RICH AND NOT INVOLVED IN THR MARKET PLAYER HERE JUST SPEAKING FROM OBSERVATION)
1) i get that a lot of people really really like this, but i don’t. not at all. nuh uh. and i get that it could be seen as “liodenners hating options that make things more accessible to players,” but that’s not really my concern here. yeah, sure, it’d make things easier, but that’s kind of the issue here :(
i’ll point your attention to the disaster that is the trade center: we all saw the crash that was the piebald market and the dawn market fairly recently (a year or two ago, i forget…. sigh i still remember when dawns were valuable). with the influx of new players, the pie market (and the mutie market in general) absolutely PLUMMETED. it’s nice to have pies for aesthetics and pride, but beyond that? they don’t really have value, especially not if they’re dirty. remember how mosaics used to be valuable? me too lmao (they go for 2gb these days, and now i don’t really get excited when my main pops them anymore unless they’re on a good base).
i don’t sell them (or the pies or muties i get on this account) because it’s just not worth it. i don’t WANT to have them rot in my pride as i wait for someone to buy out a g3 MOSAIC (a RARE pie btw!!) for a SINGLE gb. i’ve done that before, and that adol aged up and ran away before she sold.
the dawn market: remember when hexa dawns used to go for 100+ gb? not anymore! that died so fast with the applicator dawn markings! dawn markings are lucky to even go for a gb 😔😔
the rosette market (to an extent; i never paid attention to it lol), the combo base market, the dwarf market (i can’t sell mine for much and am debating getting rid of them or letting them die w/o breeding them properly anymore because they’re a net loss and too much to maintain at this point (scrotes may not be worth what they used to but they’re still too much for each heat of 5 dwarves) even if they are cute. i can just freeze one if i want to keep one 🙄), hell, even the HYBRID market (with the release of jaglions, if im not mistaken) — they’re all something we (the older players at least) all remember being expensive that are all so so cheap because they became oversaturated and are, therefore, no longer sought after. the only people still buying them are the ones who either 1) don’t particularly care about the market value, 2) aren’t aware or 3) all of the above

clean vs dirty markets didn’t used to have such a divide (dirty can tank it by a matter of so much gb depending on the lion’s traits), and then clean breeding earned a divide between high gen and low gen, and now neither are worth very much for the average lion because NOBODY WANTS TO BUY ANYMORE

the lion market isn’t even the only thing that’s crashed. items have taken a nose turn, as well :/
me personally i don’t pay attention to those but from my time in chat, i’ve heard that the usual peak in buffy season never struck this year, y-barks LIKELY were the same (jaglions being the reason for both… darn things took out three markets)
applicators: with the exception of a SELECT few, ALL of them have experience a major drop in price, some becoming DIRT cheap. journey into vredefort crater isn’t even worth it anymore because interstellar remnants just doesn’t sell for as much anymore. it’s good for the people looking to buy, sure (it makes things “easier,” right?), but then where’s the incentive to sell?

do you know WHY this is happening? say it with me: oversaturation! there’s a lot more players buying these things in the events and selling them in tc, which devalues them with the oversupply and the rush to sell

thing is, this wasn’t an issue back in the day, and for some markets (underbrush and large leaves mostly lmfaoooo the price gouging is unreal), they haven’t really experienced any drop in price. why is that? because there’s 1) plenty of uses for underbrush and large leaves which consistently require a bunch of them at a time and are desirable (crafting, event quests, etc) and 2) not a quick, easy way to get them (either you buy them from branches or tc or you grind explore and hope the LD gods smile upon you)

all of that is to say: low supply in a market creates value, value gives us a desire to WANT these pixel lions & their traits (for a lot of players, not all of us). if they lose that value because there is too MUCH supply, they lose their meaning (the ra rl, that one cinnabar rl, that one ebony rl, etc etc), and they are no longer nearly as sought after. people stop buying, the market collapses, people move on to a newer market until it, too, collapses. sure, it’s still nice to have them, but it eliminates the point of winning something SPECIAL. you know, like a SPECIAL lioness. i know the point of the raffle lioness system is to spread new traits but we don’t need to kill one of (if not the ONLY) market LD’s got left imo, no matter how easy it makes getting a RAFFLE lioness

and would it even be easy for the average player to get a raffle lioness with this system? putting them into the chased pool? i may just be a pessimist here and speaking out of anxiety but it seems very probable that the whole thing could just become a pay to win scenario :(
whenever the system is fully up and running there would be quite a few rls in the chased pool, so what’s to stop rich players from dropping a bunch of gb on energy boosts, popping a catnip, sitting down, and grinding explore until they find one (or some)? like, of course, they’d be theirs to do with at they please, but wouldn’t it kind of just become the state that the clone market is now?? worst case scenario at least :/

regardless i think 10 heritageless versions of the same version of a CURRENT rl is FAR too many. it would just tank the market so so bad. like yeah sure there are clones but how many of those clones are HERITAGELES? clones do devalue the rl market if there’s over saturation of that specific clone, but that’s what over saturation does; it DEVALUES. besides, clones are NOT heritages copies of a RAFFLE LIONESS. there should only be ONE g1 raffle lioness per raffle lioness (unless someone chases an rlc, but that typically is super rare and happens loooooooong after the original release of its respective rl), not 10. i’d suppose this is only bad from a value standpoint but i really do worry that this would make people sick of that rl really fast (like the other ones that got oversaturated). like if this is the option we’re going down i feel it’d be best to either 1) at LEAST lower it down to 2-3 chased rls of the current version released a month or two after their original counterpart, 2) 2-3 chased rls of extinct/old rls on banned/closed accounts so that their traits get a chance to be spread or 3) release the new traits of the rl on random lionesses in explore like you would with event ncls in feb/april/sept (i’ve seen this suggested a few times and it’s a pretty good idea for balancing chased rls imo (notice how it completely eliminates the concept of chased rls))

another issue i have with this option (because can you tell that i have a bit of beef with it?): i get that these rls function like chased lionesses, but it really makes absolutely no sense to be why you have to be minimum AVERAGE impression to find a RAFFLE LIONESS in explore when you have to be dreamboat to enter into the raffle to claim her in the first place. i feel like you should be dreamboat to have a chance at finding a chased rl. i also saw a comment wayy back in the discussion suggesting that only people who entered into the raffle for that lioness should have a chance at encountering her and i feel that’s pretty fair too!

suffice to say, i think 2 or 3 would be the best option, mixed with 4 and 5. more 3 than 2, WITHOUT the 365 rollover lock (why is it that high if they just want to enter in for a stud and still want the lioness?? 365 is a massive number for something that should be accessible to the entire community), with traits of rls from suspended/closed accounts mixed in with new traits from that week’s rl on the stud, with an accompanying UNIQUE raffle lionesses using either new or unused older traits, just to get them out quicker (since the entire point is spreading traits while maintaining the exclusivity of the raffle lioness) this would also make sure that the rl market remains more or less in tact (as if it wasn’t already hanging on by a thread lmao) and more people get a chance at winning/receiving traits :D

im also very very extremely biased on this but i think 7 is a great option and i would love an additional 365 rollover rl that’s such a good reward for us older players <3

i think im done word vomiting now 🥰
i don’t know if i made any of my points clear but i had a lot on my mind and sure tried my best lmao

You have liked this post!

Oh man, Spice, you really said all I could say about option 1 and more. As a more economic-fueled player, I was definitely seeing a bit to much red in my Additional Thoughts part, if because I'm replying to a sentiment I see a lot every time I try to bring up the Liodepression. Yes, I 100% back your stance on Option 1 in regards to it's economic impact and WHY that matters. If anyone was unsatisfied with my comedic addendum to my post, look no further than Spice's thoughts about it here.

You have liked this post!