-LOCKED - Discussion: Raffle Lionesses
Posted on 2024-08-05 08:57:00
We are aware of some issues that the community has been voicing with the raffle lioness system, with some complaints including it being difficult to pass on raffle-exclusive traits, raffle lionesses going to inactive accounts, and so on. We have had our own discussion among the developers and would now like to present a discussion where the community can provide feedback on the ideas we have outlined below regarding how the system can be modified, and possibly even give their own ideas if they aren't already covered.

We will be closely monitoring this topic to record feedback, which we will then use for an upcoming site poll.


New Features Being Implemented

We have some features that will be added regardless of feedback within a future update:

New Features We May Implement


* Adjusting the raffle lioness system so that only players who have been active in the last two days (so Wednesdays onward) will have a chance to win when the raffle lioness is pulled
* Sending an email notification to the player who won the weekly raffle lioness


New Features We're Considering/Discussing

These are features we have had ideas for, or have found in the Game Development forums, and would like to see which of the following would be most preferred.

** 1. Storing raffle lioness designs and releasing them slowly through explore.
Essentially, this would mean creating multiple copies of the same raffle lioness to be slow-dripped into the game through the claiming system. They would work as chased lionesses, so only kings with Average impression or higher could find them. This would likely come with a failsafe so that if the lioness fails to be claimed, she goes back into the chased pool so another player has a chance to claim her. All raffle lionesses are made with the Nurturing (Good) personality, so raffle lionesses released through the claiming system would display the Good pose.

The first week, Raffle Lioness 1 is pulled and sent to the winner, and Raffle Lioness 2 is put up to be impressed. The second week, Raffle Lioness 2 is pulled and sent to the winner, Raffle Lioness 3 is put up to be impressed, and a clone of Raffle Lioness 1 is put into the chased lioness pool in explore. The third week, Raffle Lioness 3 is pulled and sent to the winner, Raffle Lioness 4 is put up to be impressed, and clones of Raffle Lionesses 1 and 2 are put into the chased pool in explore. This repeats up to a maximum of 9 clones, making for 10 total lionesses with the same design.

A graph to show the overall release schedule for raffle lionesses through explore.
[Click to view the image full-sized]




** 2. Releasing an identical replica raffle stud alongside a raffle lioness.
The stud would have the exact same traits as the raffle lioness, but rather than being delivered to a winner's territory, a select amount of players (between 20-50) would win the ability to breed with him. This would work similarly to August's event studs in that items could not be used on the stud for breeding. We also considered, if implementing replica studs, to allow all players to enter for a chance to win a stud breeding, but lock weekly raffle lionesses so that only accounts that have 365 or more total rollovers (not consecutive) would be eligible to try and impress her.


** 3. Implementing raffle studs in general.
An alternative to releasing an identical replica raffle stud would be releasing a raffle stud alongside a raffle lioness who may share similar traits, e.g. if a raffle lioness is releasing a brand new eye colour, the raffle stud that week would have that eye colour as well, or if she is releasing a brand new raffle marking, the raffle stud that week would have that marking as well (either in the same slot, or a different slot). Breedings to this stud would also be limited to 20-50 players weekly, and items would not be allowed. This would also come with all players being able to enter for a chance to win a stud breeding, but locking weekly raffle lionesses so that only accounts that have 365 or more total rollovers (not consecutive) would be eligible to try and impress her.


** 4. Releasing more than one raffle lioness per week.
This would either be multiple identical copies of the same raffle lioness, or up to 3 different raffle lionesses at once who would share some of the same traits, but not be identical.


** 5. Releasing recreated copies of previous raffle lionesses who are on banned/closed accounts.
This would be making a replica of the raffle lioness to raffle off through the official raffle system. The original raffle lioness would stay on the same account. This is specifically only for permanently suspended accounts, and accounts that have been closed—not inactive accounts that are not suspended/closed.


** 6. Allow the weekly raffle lioness to be impressed daily instead of once weekly for higher chances of winning, therefore rewarding more active players.
The weekly raffle lioness would still be available for a full week as usual, but daily impression attempts will add up and give a greater chance at winning her as compared to only one attempt per week (how it currently works).


** 7. Add a second raffle lioness for players who have rolled over at least 365 times in total (not consecutively), with potentially more unique traits than a standard Dreamboat raffle lioness.
Players who have rolled over 365 or more times would have the ability to impress both the standard Dreamboat raffle lioness, as well as a second raffle lioness that is only available to accounts with 365+ total rollovers.





We may mix-and-match some of the options, but we will be polling the community on these options regardless.

If you have any ideas or suggestions that were not listed above, we would appreciate your input and highly encourage you to provide a detailed response within this news post!

We will be deleting any comments that do not actually contribute to the discussion.



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Edited on 05/08/24 @ 10:34:29 by Katze (#3)

🕸️ Galaxy {G1
SCOUNDREL} 🕸️ (#336030)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2024-08-06 05:07:06
Ok so i think the best idea is the studs....Male markings roll first and by not being able to ise items on the studs we have access to things like eyes manes skin bases and markings that would otherwise not be in game. Even if we use a stud and say get 6 out of 15 markings from that stud we would still need to work really hard to get the other markings or traits to make a full RLC clone....it wouldnt make the raffle lioness any less special it would just be an insurance that ok theres atleast 20 or so people that have maybe 30 cubs with a handful of these traits. It would also encourage people to make their own combinations of high breed only traits but not exact RLC Clones.


Idealy id like for this to start with males of some of the extinct lines. If possible to get some of the traits and markings no longer even available in game back into the public.



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Edited on 06/08/24 @ 05:41:44 by Galaxy {G1 Prismatic Primal} (#351619)

🍁 Anaraktu
🍁[G1 Mada RLC] (#75008)

Lone Wanderer
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Posted on
2024-08-06 05:13:39
They all sound great, i think there would be a nice combination of:
-A weekly raffle stud that highly resembles the lioness, this is accessable for all players too.

-A second lioness for players that rolled over for more then 365 days, she should have a bit more special and rare markings then the normal weekly lioness. (There would be 2 lionesses per week)

-An impression basis on impressing per day, so people who impressed her per day would have a higher chance

-Maybe more lionesses in one week, so maybe 2 regluar lionesses per week, and 1 special one for players that rolled over 365x

The explore thing is neat as well, but it would decrease the speciality of lionesses a lot i think, OR it would have to be that there is only 9 in explore and no more, so that with the raffle lioness youd come to an even number of 10 first gens. But i think for a LOT of players, the explore feature would not be welcome, since it will decrease value and speciality by a lot and will destroy the market entirely

I think a nice combo of everything would be greatly appreciated by all players.

I do think that lionesses on banned accounts SHOULD be rereleased, since theres a lot of beautiful designs in there which we will never see again and we can definetly reuse.

Same with lionesses that never had a clone perchance? But that would be a different matter entirely.

I also think that ONLY adding people in the roll that were active either the last 2 days, or every day for the 7 days she is up there would be a change that needs to be added
Same with an email notification to the winner



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Edited on 06/08/24 @ 05:16:18 by 🍁 Anaraktu 🍁[G1 Mada RLC] (#75008)

Myth 💙
[G1BanditRLC] (#350990)

Cursed
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Posted on
2024-08-06 05:19:46
I'm coming back to this now that I've had more time to think.

My biggest issue is that I think "The Raffle Lioness" and "The means by which new traits are spread" need two be entirely separate entities. A RL is no longer a viable means to spread traits.

The RL should remain unique, a 1 of a kind lion. She is a prize for one lucky winner, a trophy. The winner should get to enjoy her, alter her, do whatever they want with her. And that's where it should end. The RL winner should have 0 say in whether traits get spread, because that choice shouldnt be in the hands of 1 individual.

For that reason, I'm against idea 1 and 4. Aside from the fact that idea 1 is dangerously pay2win, I dont like the idea of their being more RLs. If the issue is spreading traits, then introducing more RLs that have already proven to be ineffective at spreading traits is not going to help. Instead, you're going to end up with severely devalued RLCs. I'd also worry about idea 1 causing conflict. Does the person who claims the first clone feel entitled to dictate what the others do? Do they try to form a clique. What if half of them want to group up and keep their RLs private and the others dont?

---

Regarding a mandatory 365 ROs and other activity checks. I understand it. You keep your players coming back. You promote loyalty of the player base. Gotta stick at it to win. And I'll be honest it feels real shitty. Taking things away from the casual player base isnt going to make them into hardcore daily players, it's just demotivating. Having to RO on wed/thurs/fri isnt going to ensure a RL goes to an active player, it's just going to remove chances from folks with jobs, or busy lives, or who just want to skip playing for a day.

What I would much prefer is a mandatory 30 ROs before you can enter a RL draw. From experience, dealing with a RL is stressful. It throws you into the spotlight. It makes you a target for harassment and unsolicited offers and advice. Its potentially extremely costly if you dont have a Crunchy to hand or have a means to freeze the RL until you're equipped to deal with her. That sort of experience should not be thrust upon a new player, who may not even have their bearings yet, and just entered a raffle because hey it's fun and cheap and readily available. This issue becomes less important IF we get raffle studs, as it should minimize the spotlight put on RL winners.

---

Regarding recreating lost / banned RLs. Once again the emphasis sounds like it's on the RL being lost, and not the traits. I think people should stop expecting a RL being owed to the community. It's not. What the community do deserve is the chance for traits. Doesnt have to be a recreated clone, it just needs to be the traits. In new RLs, in raffle studs, whatever means, just make sure the traits actually exist. Let people have access to traits and they will breed the lions they want.

---

Lastly, and because I'm drasticlly running put of steam to write this : raffle studs.

I was (past tense) a big fan of idea 2. In hindsight, it really devalues the RL herself. When I say devalues, I'm not particularly caring about the monetary value, I'm taking about her uniqueness as a prize. As something a lucky winner can treasure and adore and call *theirs*.

I'm now all for idea 3. (Minus the 365 ro minimum.) I think raffle studs should be kept very separate, so as to not be confused with the RL herself. They should be available to everyone, and the entry fee should be varied. Sometimes the fee is x number of food uses, sometimes its sb, sometimes its skulls. Hell I wouldnt mind paying in monkey teeth, I need more uses for those.

Raffle studs could introduce new traits much more reliably, reintroduce extinct traits, and supliment rare or declining traits. As the list of markings in game grows ever longer, its inevitable that some will need help getting out into the ecosystem. This could be such an efficient answer to the issue of trait spread, whilst also allowing for a healthier environment surrounding RLs. If the pressure of spreading traits and of "hoarding" new traits is removed from RLs, we *should* see less conflict and grief, allowing players to actually enjoy their prize.

(Edited to fix cohesion, appologies for any grammatical errors.)



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Edited on 06/08/24 @ 14:06:18 by Myth 🦔 [G1BanditRLC] (#350990)

Saff - Kimanjano (#137237)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2024-08-06 05:20:25
Hmm I don’t feel this is the right approach, every Tom, Dick and Harry has a clone or 2 or 3 but when it comes to one going to a banned account I think it should be re-raffled.
I like the idea of emailing the winner.

I get you will add something here so I just want to say I prefer something along Number 3 where rather then complete copies of a raffle lioness is made on a stud or extra lionesses, that a special new trait is provided instead, maybe another design but with the new trait, for a marking a different slot might help preserve value.



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Edited on 07/08/24 @ 20:35:03 by Saff - Kimanjano (#137237)

Verridith [g1
stellar/panda] (#407)

Interstellar
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Posted on
2024-08-06 05:58:13
I did a lonnnggg suggestion thread with my ideas for this here:
https://www.lioden.com/topic.php?id=304429436539

But YES glad to see this is finally getting attention!!



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Fuego [II]
GrodTsavoSepia (#41761)

Nice Guy
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Posted on
2024-08-06 06:24:59
@Myth The RL should remain unique, a 1 of a kind lion. She is a prize for one lucky winner, a trophy. The winner should get to enjoy her, alter her, do whatever they want with her. And that's where it should end. The RL winner should have 0 say in whether traits get spread, because that choice shouldnt be in the hands of 1 individual.

I don't necessarily disagree with this viewpoint, but if that's the way the RL has evolved to be, then in my honest opinion, and it is maybe an unpopular one, she doesn't *need* to be completely BO from head to toebeans. If it's not about releasing and spreading new traits but just winning a pretty lion, then the exclusivity should be the lion's appearance and not the traits. Saying that, maybe mutations on the raffle gals could be more common the less BO they have. Perhaps a hybrid shows up more than once a year for that reason. Not sure but thinking out loud.

Other thoughts:

I also argue the other side of the coin for everyone saying it shouldn't be one person's responsibility to spread traits, okay but I feel at the same time it's a person's *choice* to enter the raffle. So, don't enter if you don't want to spread traits? Or it just goes back up to my argument that if it's just an exclusive pretty lion then the traits shouldn't be the prime factor and need to come from somewhere else.

I do really like several suggestions being made that instead of full clones released into explore that the traits become available to claim that week and are totally randomized, like standard event markings.

Raffle studs are a very popular option in this thread, I am sure polls would reflect this, and I think it is the most exciting. I love August for this very reason and seeing what lotto cubs I end up with. I haven't had a savage base pass yet from them personally, but it's still a fun gamble and the marking mixes are the cherry on top! :)

One thing is for absolutely certain though, the 40 pages of really good, thoughtful conversations are refreshing and just goes to show how the majority have wanted improvements to this system for a long time. Thank you again to the devs for this discussion!



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sarastallet99
(Ferus) Poop Me (#5285)

Cursed
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Posted on
2024-08-06 06:49:50
I really like all the suggestions EXCEPT for "Adjusting the raffle lioness system so that only players who have been active in the last two days (so Wednesdays onward) will have a chance to win when the raffle lioness is pulled", I would go as far as to say I strongly dislike it even.
I think that if you have paid for the ticket and won the lioness than that is it, you won it fair and square with pure luck and shouldn't be punished for not being active almost every single day. I agree that if the account have been closed/banned permanently then the system should pull a new winner automatically but only then.

I might be a bit biased since I have periods of intense lioden playing and then a hiatus that can last a week to a few months, but I have also been playing since 2013 so apparently I tend to get back here x'D But I would hate to have missed out on a raffle lioness that I paid for just because I had a little break, it feels unfair.

A suggestion to adding them to explore, maybe add them but with slightly changed opacities? You can still see that it's not just a regular NCL and with very little hassle you can still make it a perfect copy if you want to.
I really like the failsafe idea as well, it would suck if someone that is somewhat new found it and missed it, don't know what it is or just someone that isn't a fan of the design and therefore there would be less of that design in game :/ A possible thing to do would be to add a little star next to the heart bars or something to indicate that this is a raffle clone/design?



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CC - G1 12 BO
Mandarin + MS (#448877)

King of the Jungle
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Posted on
2024-08-06 07:22:49
Since I've seen quite a few people say that raffle studs should have the same rare markings as the RL but in a different slot, allow me to explain why that should not happen.

Raffle lions currently are partially suggested by the players. This means players who prioritize BO traits can go "hey, I really need -insert slot that doesn't exist/is rare- can you add that to a RL so I might be able to get it for my project?" and then Katze may chose to add it to one of the upcoming RLs.

If the slot is changed this system no longer works. It completely changes the entire point of suggesting those specific slots as we may no longer be able to get them. If you take a look at the Lioden Wiki there is a portion that will show you how many kings and how many lionesses have a marking in a specific slot.

For example, Seal Brindle has 166 kings and 7,300 lions in slot 6. So, obviously since it's such a popular marking it should have that many in all of the slots! ... No, dear reader, there are no existing lions with Seal Brindle in slot 7 or 8 anywhere on site.

I hope this helps to clear up some potential confusion among the players as to why some of us BO breeders are going a tad feral when certain suggestions are made.

You can check marking rarity here: https://www.lioden.wiki/raffle-marking-slot-rarity
And request traits here: https://www.lioden.com/topic.php?id=304429314397



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Simon (#144359)

Astral
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Posted on
2024-08-06 07:35:03
Oh, this will be so cool!
Especially when tons of players are trying to impress the RL!
I think this will be so cool!!



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Forrest ❅ G1
Patches RLC (#190706)

Maneater
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Posted on
2024-08-06 07:48:41
If there do end up being multiple raffle lions, I’d love to see them staggered—so one releases on Friday, then Monday, then Wednesday (or something similar)—so there would be more to look forward to throughout the week and RLC breeders wouldn’t be overwhelmed looking at multiple different RLs on the same day



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cowboy suitcase (#171433)

Impeccable
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Posted on
2024-08-06 08:01:16
The possibility of finding some of the old raffle lionesses is a really neat option :)



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🕸️ Galaxy {G1
SCOUNDREL} 🕸️ (#336030)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2024-08-06 08:06:50
Also...i wish lioden would allow an item that would let you switch which slot an existing marking was in....it would make breeding a bit easier...and allow some of the dead marks to be added in slots



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Lavy 🎃 (#323535)


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Posted on
2024-08-06 08:34:17
That item would devalue slots and projects completely ^



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˗ˏˋThe Mighty
Serpent´ˎ˗ (#59025)

Heavenly
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Posted on
2024-08-06 08:53:51
@Galaxy, I totally get where you are coming from. I understand the idea would be to make breeding projects a lot easier but it would defeat the purpose of having markings in special slots associated with the special raffle lioness. It would also take away how rewarding it is to complete a project, at least in my opinion.



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Ishild (#45980)

Usual
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Posted on
2024-08-06 09:02:09
Ooh I love chased NCLs!



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