Posted by [++] The Ability System

Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-08 20:54:29

The Ability System

- balance for gameplay

After many changes in the gameplay, the way the battles and the new claiming system works, I think there could be a small addition, which shows our hard work and affects our progress a lot more than stats.

So, I propose a new system.


The Ability System

Description:
This system would be completely independent of stats.
So, the lions could use abilities in either fighting, charming, or exploring to make them more successful. These abilities would depend on points, level, skill, and karma.

How it works in short:

There would be a total of 10 abilities in fighting, 3 for charming, and 5 for exploring. (these can be changed)
Each ability appears at the aforementioned situations which then can be used to gain advantage.
Each ability will need points to have a potential efficiency, skill to reach the true efficiency, and karma, which determines your ability arsenal.

Points:
Points can be used to make an ability better and be performed with a greater success rate. It is never 100% though. In total 10 points can be added to one ability to reach its max potential, which would be performed at 90-95% efficiency.

Points can be earned by:
- Leveling (2 points - maybe rarely 3 points) - 31 levels give 62 points
- Visiting for 12 consecutive days (1 point) max 16 points
- Fighting NPCs (a 10% chance for 1 point)
- Claiming lionesses (a 5% chance for 1 point)
- Reaching the next karma level (1 point) -only once each karma level - max 34 points
- Filling Dreamboat Impression bar (1 point?)

Max 180 points can be assigned entirely.

Level:
Level is mainly used to earn points. Each time you level, you earn 2-3 points, so leveling will become a greater desire to players. It also –just like now- raises the limit of skill you can earn.

Skill:
Skill would determine how much % of the points you have will be counted in per ability. After all, the points only determine the potential efficiency of an ability. So if you have 10 points in one ability, but have barely any skill, then a low % of these points will be counted into the performed ability, so it still can fail, despite the high success rate.
This would also depend on your level, considering the limit on the skill.

Eg.:
Level 20 lion has 10 points in one ability, so has technically 90-95% chance to succeed, but has only 120 skill (so half of the max of that level), he would end up with 45-50% success at an ability if performed.

Level 2 lion has 10 points in one ability, so has technically 90-95% chance to succeed, but has only 12 skill (so half of the max of that level), he would end up with 45-50% success at an ability if performed.

(Although, the last would be impossible, due to the point distribution, but it shows well, that low level, even new players will not be at great disadvantage)

Karma:
Karma would ultimately determine what kind of fighting abilities your lion can have.
They could be put into two groups: Good Karma abilities, Bad Karma abilities.
(Each would contain 5 abilities)
Obviously, if you have positive karma, then you will end up with the former.
If you have neutral Karma… then you can have both groups, so it pays off the effort to keep a neutral Karma, and Cleansing Ichor would be used more frequently.
However!
Pay attention!

‘More’ doesn’t always mean ‘better’.

How would this work?
Every lion starts out with a set of 10 fighting abilities, 3 charming abilities, and 5 exploring abilities, due to having neutral Karma. All abilities would have no points within them.
Upon starting the game with a lion (be it starter or heir) you get 5 points to start out with, which you can distribute wisely among the 18 abilities.

From there, the game starts. Leveling, fighting, maybe even attacking other lions could give you points, which you can wisely put into your chosen abilities. You can either work for a positive, negative, or neutral Karma, which will modify the arsenal of abilities in fighting.

NPC fights:
Once entering battle, you can choose between the specific amount of abilities in an attack depending on your karma. There would be HP for both you and your opponent, just like right now. The success of the battle may depend on your abilities.

PVP fights:
The bonus abilities (see below) that you can gain from the ability system affect PVP. This would be one thing that could be connected to the ability system and a goal to set for players to unlock the special passive abilities for their lions in each generation.

Claiming Lionesses:
Once you click ‘Claim her’, you will be brought onto the claiming page.

There, your Charming abilities are listed, which you can use to either boost your chances or reduce the temper of the lioness. Maybe there could be a passive ability, which lets you start with an extra heart or two in the bar.

Exploring:
Instead of just the explore button, there would be abilities listed right along with it, which you can choose to perform every 4 hours (or once a day). They will help you with exploring upon activation.

Eg.: One ability could help you find quest items, another that lets you find more resting places, perhaps another that increases or decreases enemy encounters.

What about Lionesses?
I had two ideas for this.

a) They get no abilities or points.

b) They would have their own set of abilities. Hunting abilities. They can have a chance of gaining points after each successful hunt, and get 2-3 points after each level-up. These would be passive abilities, so always active.

List of Abilities
Note: This can be changed, altered, these are just suggestions, taken from this thread or thought out on my own or they already exist. All damage of an ability falls back on your lion if it failed.

Fighting Abilities:
(The more points you put into an ability, the less chance there is to miss -but cannot overwrite the written-down limit- OR the more damage/protection the ability gives)
Negative Karma-
- Suffocate - 30% damage
- Scratch limbs - 20% damage
- Roar of Fury - Gives + 10% damage to next attack - Opponent freezes/ Fail ends in you receiving 10% damage (+ damage done by opponent?)
- Neck bite - 20% damage, has a 30% chance of breaking opponent’s neck, so ending the fight
- Last Stand - When your lion reaches 20% or less health, he can attack out of turn once. Does 40% damage at 40% chance of success.

Positive Karma-
- Intimidating Roar - 10% damage - Opponent freezes
- Dominating - 20% damage - 30% chance of Opponent getting intimidated and flees
- Thick Skin - Receive 10% less damage at next turn - Guaranteed (+ Can use another ability?)
- Bluff Charge - 20% damage
- Last Stand - When your lion reaches 20% or less health, he can sound a thundering roar, which has a 40% chance of sending the opponent fleeing.

Charming Abilities:
(The more points you add to an ability, the more chance there is that the lioness will like the move)
- Apedamek's Blessing - Adds 1-2 hearts to the claiming bar.
- Right of the King - Removes 2-3 temper from the bar
- Prince Charming - Adds an extra heart to each of your moves in this claiming attempt.

Exploring Abilities:
(The more points are put into an ability, the more clicks the ability lasts -but not more than what is written down)
- Catnip/Flower Bath - adds 20% more chance to find NCLs and feline opponents for the next 30 clicks.
- Mark Territory - reduces the NPC encounter by 20%, adds 20% chance to finding carcasses and items. Lasts 30 clicks.
- Lazy Cat - Rest 30% more times to gain more energy. Lasts 20 clicks.
- Sneaky Raccoon - Find 40% more carcasses for the next 20 clicks.
- Focus - Adds 30% chance to finding quest items/NPCs for the snake. Lasts 30 clicks.

Hunting Abilities: - For Lionesses
- Power - The more points it contains, the more % chance it adds for bigger carcasses despite level/skill
- Lone Hunter - The more points it contains, the more % chance it adds for this lioness to bring back +1 smaller carcass from a hunt
- etc…
If Roles for Lionesses are brought in, there can be abilities specifically for those roles.

Important Notes:
- Do not ask for stats to affect the abilities. They wouldn’t.
- Submales should only gain up to 120 skill in their patrols to prevent huge advantages.
- Ability points are not inherited, just like skill, Karma, and level. The perfect way to balance gameplay between oldies and newbies.
- Points for Karma levels are only given out once. Eg. If you reached Dreamboat of Ladies and got the points, then you use the ichor to reset your Karma, you will not get points again for the level scale. (in one lion's lifetime)
- Upon switching from positive to negative Karma, or vice versa, the points you already put into the opposite ability will not vanish but will be saved to when you get back to that karma.
- Enables tactical thinking
- Effort of an individual would be shown in three ways instead of one: stats, points, maxed abilities
- No GB items that give you points, please...
- Suits all playerstyles: PVP players, PVE players get something to do, and breeders for looks can keep breeding for looks.
-----------------------------------

New Additional Ideas



1.) Bonus Passive Abilities
After maxing out the abilities of one section (fighting, exploring, charming), you could maybe get a bonus passive ability as a reward for that section. These abilities would be of course more valuable, since they are rewards, and would be always affecting your gameplay.

Suggestions:
Fighting ability -
Negative Karma: Beast - Deliver 5% more damage per attack
Positive Karma: Paladin - Receive 5% less damage per attack

Charming ability - Dreamboat: Start claiming by the bar already having 25% filling

Explore ability - Voyager: Receive 10% more exp OR receive additional explore steps

I also had the idea, that perhaps after collecting each of these bonus abilities, you could have one reward ability for it, called 'The King of the Jungle'. I am not sure what it would do though. Unlocking this ability will be practically impossible, so it could do pretty badass things.
----------------------------------
This idea is highly in development, and am free to suggestions. Give your own opinion.

Thanks.




This suggestion has 209 supports and 96 NO supports.



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Edited on 15/04/17 @ 13:33:35 by Axel (#6627)

Timothy (AS) (#18706)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 05:24:37
That leaderboard male was born with exactly 54 stats, I remember becuase I saw him being partolled, he was birthed from a gift lioness someone gave the Naestie and he was patrolled up to 13 years. He was also made king when her male was old enough to retire... so I don't get what you're saying Axel.



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 05:26:23
Mysticashes:
No, inheritable stats show your work of the previous generation, and not the current one. If you bought the lion, then it shows the effort of the one who you bought it from. Not your current work.

I understand that resetting it every time your lion dies seems to be much but it will show your current progress more accurately. Your current work. Your effort without disrupting the picture by stats you got from the previous generation. The previous generation's effort is the past. Your current progress could be also shown off. On your current lion.



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 05:35:25
Timothy:
The problem isnt that they went so far in collecting stats. You would be able to collect more points, and even get close to max out your male if you are playing 24/7. This gap wouldnt vanish. There is no difference in this between points and stats. You can be indeed active, your hard work and effort in continuous gameplay will be displayed accurately, and you can be indeed a lot better than the base players. be more successful. Be stronger, better.

However, in the case of stats, this player can give a specific % of his lion's stats onto its cubs, so enabling them having the same training, but with far greater result, thus their stats will be better than their father's, widening the gap between players further.

And this is the exact moment where stats and points differ. Because the player wouldnt be able to breed their high statted male's stats onto their cub. But the cub would be born with 0 points, and they would need to make the exact same hard work to bring them where their previous male lion was.

See? Effort will still be rewarded. There will be a gap between actives and casuals. As a very active player your lion can be still far better than others'. Only that this effort will not be inherited. Thus not allowing this gap to exist forever.



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Timothy (AS) (#18706)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 05:42:59
Axel> who wants all their PREVIOUS hard work to just vanish and start over again? I mean seriously, so what if breeding gives stats, and you forget its not just the fathers. its the mothers too, both sides need to be well enough to give a nice enough cub for training, and again to get it higher than both the parents, it is once again work.



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 05:45:41
Timothy:
Please see previous page, my last comment on that page why continuously growing stats in generations stand in the way of implementing uses to stats.



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Mysticashes (#26903)


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Posted on
2014-04-20 05:53:12
Yes but then you lose all your past work which to me doesn't see fair. Yes you can buy a high stat lion and yes you might not have put the work into it (yet but you likely will to improve it) but that shows the other persons work. You are paying for their hours of hard work and dedication spent to make that high stat lion and then once you buy it you add to the hard work.

With points it would just be yourself, and then it would reset and you would do the same things to work up to the same end, all of your hard work swirling down the drain once your lion retires. Stats show progress, and not just yours but that of the lioden users. All the hard work that every person who owned that lion and all the owners of its ancestors. All put hours of work into making that high stat lion. Why is that a bad thing? How is that a failure? To me that's a big success!

Plus there a lots of people who do not care about stats and just want to have pretty lions. It is great for them because if they want pretty but low stat lions they can get a good deal of really nice lions. So stats do not hurt them at all.

Also using the gap between new player and old doesn't really work. I am still pretty new and I have a 1200 stat submale I bred and I am just an average player coming on for a couple hours a day if that. Remember that as stats get higher the lower the price gets for what used to be considered high stats. When lions stats averaging say 1000 stats at birth and are considered low (which will take some time) then new players will be able to afford those 1000 stats cubs to cross the gap quicker.

I know personally if your ability system was made I would likely not use it because I would see very little point if it was just going to be erased. If stats were still around I would continue to focus on them since it would continue to show my work generation to generation. Sure there would be people who used the abilities system but I don't see it being used actively by most of the users because of the resetting factor. I could see a lot of people just quitting once they found out all the work they put into the lion just got reset because they retired him.




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Edited on 20/04/14 by Mysticashes (#26903)

Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 06:05:43
Why is that a bad thing? How is that a failure?
I dont say it is a failure, neither is it bad in its own. Only that it stands in the way of implementing uses to stats. With growing stats in generations every lion would one-hit kill NPCs, easily claim lionesses, and even beat way higher level lions at level 1. Does it seem right? No.

all of your hard work swirling down the drain once your lion retires.
Well, your hard work will show. On your current lion. As it is right. Your future lion is your future effort.

Remember that as stats get higher the lower the price gets for what used to be considered high stats. When lions stats averaging say 1000 stats at birth and are considered low (which will take some time) then new players will be able to afford those 1000 stats cubs to cross the gap quicker.
Yes, but by the time these 1000 stats get cheaper, the new it stat will be 3000 stats. So basically it is like they buy a 500 stats lion now.
And this is one of the problems and shows the trouble accurately. If they base all the uses of stats on 1000 stats lions, then these uses will be outdated with time, due to growth of average stats.

Also restarting the game after you retire your lion would make more sense if you think about it. We were told that once another lion takes over, we start over the game as low level lions. They however forgot the stat factor.
So if uses to stats are given, then as a low level beginner lion after retirement you will be basically a pro lion again and can continue the game where you left off, minus the level and Karma. Kind of pointless this way. hence why a complete reset must be made.



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hachster54 (#31333)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 06:22:30
So what about the people, and there a many out there, that wouldn't want to restart all the time, Axel? Resetting after the lion dies is very similar to resetting stat. You lose all that hard work. The only difference is that these points will reset FAR more often. This could really upset lots of people.



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Mysticashes (#26903)


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Posted on
2014-04-20 06:31:24
In the OP You did say Stats were a failure which is why I said that first statement. Why are you assuming that stats will have anything to do with killing NCLs, claiming, and beating other lions? Sure Stats could be used for those things but they could also end up not having anything to do with those. Hell they could end up adjusting NLCs to be about the same power as your lion (so new players with like 20 stats will face NCL with 15 to 25 stats and people with 5000 stats lions face NCL with 4950 to 5050 stats) and for PVP only using skill as the determination as who wins. They could use stats in ways we haven't even though up yet. So to say the way stats are now make it so they couldn't put uses to them is a little premature I think.

And all my past hard work wouldn't show. I could retire my lion to a new one and even though I have been a dedicated user for say three years (just an example) I would look like I have put in the same or even less work then a user who has only been part of the game for two weeks.

And yes you have a point about once the low stats become 1000 that high stats would be 3000 but that is my point. As the stats go up the gap will stay about the same for the most part. so it is not like the gap will become new players only able to get up to 300 stats without paying crazy money and high stats being 10,000 stats. it would likely keep a few thousand apart.

The way I see it Stats are like show breeding say bengals. People breed the best to the best to get even better kittens who will grow to be bred to the best to make even better kittens. Stats are kinda like that, something to show what the best of the best is since this is a game and we can't really go check out our lions for their best qualities XD Although that is a funny thought, trying to get a lion to stand still so we could check the shape of their ears and size of their whisker pads to see who is the best without getting eaten lol.

So your ability system would be like agility training a dog. You get a pup and train it to run a course as fast as possible with as few mistakes as possible. Then the dog retires and you do it again. Difference is that with the dog you might get a ribbon or a prize(or many depending on how many events you entered) if you trained it well and it had a natural ability to do well in agility. You would have proof of your very hard work to show people if they wanted to buy a pup from you. With your system you don't have the reward, use while the lion is alive you can say hey look at my points but then it dies and you are back down to step one with nothing to show of your months of work.



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hachster54 (#31333)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 06:43:08
Also, you are trying to change something that exists in real life. Picture families of lions in countries. Don't countries work hard, to prepare the next generation? Stats mirror real life, in a sense. And in real life, it all pretty much balances out. Different countries, or lions, are known for different things. Some lions will be bred for their appearance, some will be bred for stats. Real life would be pretty dull if we never advanced. People teach the next generation, and so on. Lions pass on stats.

How many people would get bored with the game if you only did the same thing, over and over again, with nothing to show of your previous efforts?



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Edited on 20/04/14 by hachster54 (#31333)

Mysticashes (#26903)


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Posted on
2014-04-20 06:45:34
Hachster54 Thank you for adding that point, It would be less realistic if really powerful lions didn't teach their cubs to be strong.



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 07:37:36
You forget, that you can teach knowledge, but you cannot teach someone to be stronger than their kind lets them to be.

A man, no matter how strong, will have its own limits. Simply by you gaining muscle over the years, your children will not inherit your stronger state. They will inherit your genetics. And additional strength that you gain over life will not be inherited by your children. Just pointing out.

And yes, it might seem quite repeating if the stats or points are not inherited, but otherwise there can be no uses implemented sadly. So you have to choose. Inheriting or uses.

Btw, I have additional suggestions added:

New Additional Ideas



1.) Bonus Passive Abilities
After maxing out the abilities of one section (fighting, exploring, charming), you could maybe get a bonus passive ability as a reward for that section. These abilities would be of course more valuable, since they are rewards, and would be always affecting your gameplay.

Suggestions:
Fighting ability -
Negative Karma: Beast - Deliver 5% more damage per attack
Positive Karma: Paladin - Receive 5% less damage per attack

Charming ability - Dreamboat: Start claiming by the bar already having 25% filling

Explore ability - Voyager: Receive 10% more exp OR receive additional explore steps

I also had the idea, that perhaps after collecting each of these bonus abilities, you could have one reward ability for it, called 'The King of the Jungle'. I am not sure what it would do though. Unlocking this ability will be practically impossible, so it could do pretty badass things.



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hachster54 (#31333)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 08:36:21
Still no support. I would prefer inheritance to uses. They are looking for a way to make stats worth something, anyways. And before you can protest:
Just because YOU don't see a way for stats the work, doesn't mean there ISN'T a way that you didn't think of.

Here is a list of why in don't like this idea:

1. This change would be EXPENSIVE for Lioden. Very expensive.

2. This would take longer than working to give stats a purpose.

3. I don't like the idea of starting over all the time.

4. Many people may become confused, if they even stick around.

5. Many people, me included, would quit.

6. Most probably wouldn't like this system, because their work goes down the drain in the end.

7. Many may not use this system, not wanting to put time into something that just goes away later.

8. You are jumping the gun a lot, saying that stats are useless. They don't have a function yet. How do you know it won't work, for sure?

9. This game would just turn into one for breeding pretty lions. Many would quickly get bored with it.

10. Many would also get bored of this system. They wouldn't want to get through the same process every generation, not really getting anywhere, and always ending back at Start.

11. This system could cause a massive amount of people to quit. That means less money for Lioden, which means less ability to improve the game again.

12. Getting rid of stats risks destroying the economy.


Could you respond to all of these reasons, please?



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 18:55:02
Sure.

Reason 1: Any system implementing will be expensive for Lioden. No matter what people say, Putting in uses to stats or a new system will be the same cost. Well, maybe stats would cost more since they will realize after a year that it was a bad idea if no changes come to stats themselves and they have to redo the whole thing.

Reason 2: How do you know? Currently, there is no use to stats, so who said implementing that will be a lot more time than a new system? Stats currently can only be earned and do nothing. Just put in points to be earned in their stead and then implement uses. That wont take longer at all.

Reason 3, 6, 7, 10 are the same once more. Talking about restarting repeatedly. My answer: It is necessary for PVE gameplay. If you have ideas for stats, feel free to share with me. And starting new again actually makes the gameplay exciting again. Right now if my main male retires and my new male takes over, I have a pro lion that can beat level 28 lions with ease. Does it seem right? No. Once a new lion takes over, it indeed shall make us restart the game. We are used to this 'start once and never have to again'. I always missed the 'restart' part of the game.

Reason 4: What is confusing about this? You get abilities to start with, then through gameplay you gain points and earn skill, level up to make these abilities better. They give you advantage. There is nothing confusing about it.

Basically reason 5 and 11 are the same thing. Quitting. Trust me, if there is any system put in, not everyone will be pleased with it. If there will be uses to stats themselves put in, you can possibly expect a stat reset, or indeed uninheritable stats in order to make uses work for NPC fights, explore and claiming lionesses. So it is either you accept this system and keep your stats the way it is, or expect changes to stats themselves.

Reason 8: Please go to previous page and read my last comment there on why inheritable stats block the way to make uses for them. These are the ideas they were throwing around at the meeting. Again, if you have ideas on how to make stats useful in their current state, feel free to share.

Reason 9: This game is already a pretty kitty breeding game. Look: Specials.

Reason 12: Economy is basically a nonexistent term on Lioden. It is as trash as it can become. It might actually fix the economy by not enabling lions to be sold just so at birth, so basically the cub market would look different. People would buy lions which were already worked with and have abilities. Thus less lions on the market = better prices. But there will be pretty lion breeders all the time, no matter what you do.

I hope this answered all your questions. If you have any ideas how to put uses to stats without changing anything, feel free to share. It is one thing that you want uses to them, but it is another that sadly there is no way that we know of.



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Timothy (AS) (#18706)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 19:31:27
Um Axel that whole your children will not inherit your strength but your genes, if you are born stocky and with a well muscle mass, you will have the chance of getting that build from your father, mother etc.

If you have a smart parent, you might end up getting their intellect when you're born.

If your family are lean and good runners, you might get that ability from them.

Why are so many Olympic athletes all descended from former Olympic Athletes? They got it from their parents of course, perhaps their grandparents.

So that point you made is invalid, ever generation should have the chance to grow stronger than the former one.



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