Posted by [++] The Ability System

Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-08 20:54:29

The Ability System

- balance for gameplay

After many changes in the gameplay, the way the battles and the new claiming system works, I think there could be a small addition, which shows our hard work and affects our progress a lot more than stats.

So, I propose a new system.


The Ability System

Description:
This system would be completely independent of stats.
So, the lions could use abilities in either fighting, charming, or exploring to make them more successful. These abilities would depend on points, level, skill, and karma.

How it works in short:

There would be a total of 10 abilities in fighting, 3 for charming, and 5 for exploring. (these can be changed)
Each ability appears at the aforementioned situations which then can be used to gain advantage.
Each ability will need points to have a potential efficiency, skill to reach the true efficiency, and karma, which determines your ability arsenal.

Points:
Points can be used to make an ability better and be performed with a greater success rate. It is never 100% though. In total 10 points can be added to one ability to reach its max potential, which would be performed at 90-95% efficiency.

Points can be earned by:
- Leveling (2 points - maybe rarely 3 points) - 31 levels give 62 points
- Visiting for 12 consecutive days (1 point) max 16 points
- Fighting NPCs (a 10% chance for 1 point)
- Claiming lionesses (a 5% chance for 1 point)
- Reaching the next karma level (1 point) -only once each karma level - max 34 points
- Filling Dreamboat Impression bar (1 point?)

Max 180 points can be assigned entirely.

Level:
Level is mainly used to earn points. Each time you level, you earn 2-3 points, so leveling will become a greater desire to players. It also –just like now- raises the limit of skill you can earn.

Skill:
Skill would determine how much % of the points you have will be counted in per ability. After all, the points only determine the potential efficiency of an ability. So if you have 10 points in one ability, but have barely any skill, then a low % of these points will be counted into the performed ability, so it still can fail, despite the high success rate.
This would also depend on your level, considering the limit on the skill.

Eg.:
Level 20 lion has 10 points in one ability, so has technically 90-95% chance to succeed, but has only 120 skill (so half of the max of that level), he would end up with 45-50% success at an ability if performed.

Level 2 lion has 10 points in one ability, so has technically 90-95% chance to succeed, but has only 12 skill (so half of the max of that level), he would end up with 45-50% success at an ability if performed.

(Although, the last would be impossible, due to the point distribution, but it shows well, that low level, even new players will not be at great disadvantage)

Karma:
Karma would ultimately determine what kind of fighting abilities your lion can have.
They could be put into two groups: Good Karma abilities, Bad Karma abilities.
(Each would contain 5 abilities)
Obviously, if you have positive karma, then you will end up with the former.
If you have neutral Karma… then you can have both groups, so it pays off the effort to keep a neutral Karma, and Cleansing Ichor would be used more frequently.
However!
Pay attention!

‘More’ doesn’t always mean ‘better’.

How would this work?
Every lion starts out with a set of 10 fighting abilities, 3 charming abilities, and 5 exploring abilities, due to having neutral Karma. All abilities would have no points within them.
Upon starting the game with a lion (be it starter or heir) you get 5 points to start out with, which you can distribute wisely among the 18 abilities.

From there, the game starts. Leveling, fighting, maybe even attacking other lions could give you points, which you can wisely put into your chosen abilities. You can either work for a positive, negative, or neutral Karma, which will modify the arsenal of abilities in fighting.

NPC fights:
Once entering battle, you can choose between the specific amount of abilities in an attack depending on your karma. There would be HP for both you and your opponent, just like right now. The success of the battle may depend on your abilities.

PVP fights:
The bonus abilities (see below) that you can gain from the ability system affect PVP. This would be one thing that could be connected to the ability system and a goal to set for players to unlock the special passive abilities for their lions in each generation.

Claiming Lionesses:
Once you click ‘Claim her’, you will be brought onto the claiming page.

There, your Charming abilities are listed, which you can use to either boost your chances or reduce the temper of the lioness. Maybe there could be a passive ability, which lets you start with an extra heart or two in the bar.

Exploring:
Instead of just the explore button, there would be abilities listed right along with it, which you can choose to perform every 4 hours (or once a day). They will help you with exploring upon activation.

Eg.: One ability could help you find quest items, another that lets you find more resting places, perhaps another that increases or decreases enemy encounters.

What about Lionesses?
I had two ideas for this.

a) They get no abilities or points.

b) They would have their own set of abilities. Hunting abilities. They can have a chance of gaining points after each successful hunt, and get 2-3 points after each level-up. These would be passive abilities, so always active.

List of Abilities
Note: This can be changed, altered, these are just suggestions, taken from this thread or thought out on my own or they already exist. All damage of an ability falls back on your lion if it failed.

Fighting Abilities:
(The more points you put into an ability, the less chance there is to miss -but cannot overwrite the written-down limit- OR the more damage/protection the ability gives)
Negative Karma-
- Suffocate - 30% damage
- Scratch limbs - 20% damage
- Roar of Fury - Gives + 10% damage to next attack - Opponent freezes/ Fail ends in you receiving 10% damage (+ damage done by opponent?)
- Neck bite - 20% damage, has a 30% chance of breaking opponent’s neck, so ending the fight
- Last Stand - When your lion reaches 20% or less health, he can attack out of turn once. Does 40% damage at 40% chance of success.

Positive Karma-
- Intimidating Roar - 10% damage - Opponent freezes
- Dominating - 20% damage - 30% chance of Opponent getting intimidated and flees
- Thick Skin - Receive 10% less damage at next turn - Guaranteed (+ Can use another ability?)
- Bluff Charge - 20% damage
- Last Stand - When your lion reaches 20% or less health, he can sound a thundering roar, which has a 40% chance of sending the opponent fleeing.

Charming Abilities:
(The more points you add to an ability, the more chance there is that the lioness will like the move)
- Apedamek's Blessing - Adds 1-2 hearts to the claiming bar.
- Right of the King - Removes 2-3 temper from the bar
- Prince Charming - Adds an extra heart to each of your moves in this claiming attempt.

Exploring Abilities:
(The more points are put into an ability, the more clicks the ability lasts -but not more than what is written down)
- Catnip/Flower Bath - adds 20% more chance to find NCLs and feline opponents for the next 30 clicks.
- Mark Territory - reduces the NPC encounter by 20%, adds 20% chance to finding carcasses and items. Lasts 30 clicks.
- Lazy Cat - Rest 30% more times to gain more energy. Lasts 20 clicks.
- Sneaky Raccoon - Find 40% more carcasses for the next 20 clicks.
- Focus - Adds 30% chance to finding quest items/NPCs for the snake. Lasts 30 clicks.

Hunting Abilities: - For Lionesses
- Power - The more points it contains, the more % chance it adds for bigger carcasses despite level/skill
- Lone Hunter - The more points it contains, the more % chance it adds for this lioness to bring back +1 smaller carcass from a hunt
- etc…
If Roles for Lionesses are brought in, there can be abilities specifically for those roles.

Important Notes:
- Do not ask for stats to affect the abilities. They wouldn’t.
- Submales should only gain up to 120 skill in their patrols to prevent huge advantages.
- Ability points are not inherited, just like skill, Karma, and level. The perfect way to balance gameplay between oldies and newbies.
- Points for Karma levels are only given out once. Eg. If you reached Dreamboat of Ladies and got the points, then you use the ichor to reset your Karma, you will not get points again for the level scale. (in one lion's lifetime)
- Upon switching from positive to negative Karma, or vice versa, the points you already put into the opposite ability will not vanish but will be saved to when you get back to that karma.
- Enables tactical thinking
- Effort of an individual would be shown in three ways instead of one: stats, points, maxed abilities
- No GB items that give you points, please...
- Suits all playerstyles: PVP players, PVE players get something to do, and breeders for looks can keep breeding for looks.
-----------------------------------

New Additional Ideas



1.) Bonus Passive Abilities
After maxing out the abilities of one section (fighting, exploring, charming), you could maybe get a bonus passive ability as a reward for that section. These abilities would be of course more valuable, since they are rewards, and would be always affecting your gameplay.

Suggestions:
Fighting ability -
Negative Karma: Beast - Deliver 5% more damage per attack
Positive Karma: Paladin - Receive 5% less damage per attack

Charming ability - Dreamboat: Start claiming by the bar already having 25% filling

Explore ability - Voyager: Receive 10% more exp OR receive additional explore steps

I also had the idea, that perhaps after collecting each of these bonus abilities, you could have one reward ability for it, called 'The King of the Jungle'. I am not sure what it would do though. Unlocking this ability will be practically impossible, so it could do pretty badass things.
----------------------------------
This idea is highly in development, and am free to suggestions. Give your own opinion.

Thanks.




This suggestion has 209 supports and 96 NO supports.



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Edited on 15/04/17 @ 13:33:35 by Axel (#6627)

Phantom StarsX (#92256)

Scourge of Lions
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Posted on
2016-08-05 23:58:59
No support. As a new player myself with no lions above 200, I enjoy the challenge of wanting to get higher stats on my own, and frankly your idea gives me a headache. You keep saying stats will still be there in number form to admire but.... They wouldn't have any use based on what I read, would they? I like stats depending on if I win a PvP. I like the leader board for stats. I like that challenge.
I liked your suggestion for abilities, but not when I realized abilities would physically replace stats. I'd rather just see side abilities that you can unlock, maybe one or two, based on level and karma, not have stats replaced.



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Asra (#43637)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2016-08-06 02:05:32
Can't really give support...many people work hard to gain stats, and some newbies enjoy the task of gaining them as well. Completely removing them or taking away their use just seems..pointless to me. Some of the ideas you listed ARE good, but should be incorporated WITH stats, not without. Just my opinion though.



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2016-08-06 02:25:21
@Ambers:
It is indeed not so hard to play the game of stats if there is none xD
Sure, you collect them, sometimes easier, sometimes harder but at the end of the day... they are just visual numbers that will have little to no effect on your gameplay.
What the problem is with the stat system, is that you cannot use them for anything. Hence why another method of gaining advantage has been suggested.

I am also more than certain that having stats affect your gameplay or at least something that has an effect for it is not an unnecessary feature. This game needs it. Very much at that,
-----------------------
@Phantom:
Well, stats currently dont do anything at this time either, so you can still admire them and love them as you do now. The 'use' of stats does not change, even with this suggestion. They are pretty numbers that are listed under your lion.
----------------------
@AntiSepticEye:
Stats have no use at the moment either, so nobody is taking away anything from stats. They would stay as they are. Pretty numbers under your lions. You can still work hard to gain them as you do now. Right now, you are wasting your time with them as well. It just gives lions a false value and lies about these lions being better.



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Phantom StarsX (#92256)

Scourge of Lions
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Posted on
2016-08-06 02:41:09
I don't love stats. But they shouldn't simply be replaced by a system that would render them completely pointless. As they are now, they do have uses. Leader board, PvP. You said those would stay the same for stats. So what's even the point??? To be "admired." Fine but people only "admire" them for leaderboard. Encounter battles. Maybe the cap for effectiveness in battle does render anything higher then said cap pointless but not for everyone. And of course the challenge. Now that's the problem. If battles (aside from PvP if I read what you said correctly) are on a complete ability base, while I am open to more interactive battles, just doesn't seem right. Explore battles might even become laughably easy.

Also, I believe it was on page 5 that you listed the 3 types of players in the game (pretty kitty breeders, PvP'ers, and those who simply enjoy the game itself) and it wouldn't effect individual game play. But the way the stats are NOW everyone can enjoy them, and benefit from them. While breeding pretty kitties there stats will go up, possibly appealing to a larger market. I personally enjoy playing all 3 aspects of the game and I don't see why this would do anything other then cause annoyance. I mean come on, none of the abilities get passed down? No extra power for the work you put in for the next king? That means there is no point to abilities the way you have suggested. More pointless then stats. Period.



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Edited on 06/08/16 @ 09:42:55 by Phantom StarsX ^ↀᴥↀ^ (#92256)

Asra (#43637)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2016-08-06 04:08:14
@Axel, so leave them there and have no point to them? That hurts breeding, hunting, fighting, and the Lioden economy even more. Plus 'working hard to gain' something that has no use would be pointless. And your statements that stats do nothing and that I'm wasting my time is purely opinion based and quite rude. Why suggest something that just bends the game to how YOU and you alone think it should be? You'd start over at every breeding from square one. No abilities passed down, no stats gained, no stats inherited, so...no more FUN in the game?



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ambers. 🍊 (#15417)

Mean
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Posted on
2016-08-06 05:58:53
It is not hard to make money in this game. It is not hard to save money in this game. It is not hard to have a set goal and put time and effort and then see the fruits of your labor as a result of it. The game isn't hard. Once you actually find your way around it really isn't hard it isn't trust me.

And what's wrong with having visual numbers? What's wrong with having them just sit there? I personally like them because it gives me something to do other than reselling items or lions. There is no, I repeat NO problem with the current stat system. Sure, there may be a nerf every here and there but overall there really isn't an issue.

Honestly, I prefer the current system as is. Stats are just...there. They don't do anything but show how much work you put into them. That's it. People that have more time, more money, and more resources will always succeed over the people that don't. Even if this suggestion is implemented, the same problem will exist. Just with another feature we really didn't need.



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cake 💫 (#53239)

Wastelander
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Posted on
2016-08-06 06:18:32
No support.

While you say stats currently have "no use", they do. Users can breed for stats, farm stats with sub males or items, fight PVP for territory, exp or skill against people with stats, or hunt for those exclusive 10 slots on the leaderboard.

You forget the game is still in beta, aka, not all the features have been fully coded yet. Therefore, some things, easy things, are being taken care of first. Why? Because coding is a pain. It's a different language. You have to dig through your code to find the slightest of errors. I don't want to think about how much coding to get stats to work is going to take. Yeah, when it's eventually rolled out, maybe there'll be a stat nerf (resulting in many people who've paid GB for high statted lions) to probably completely and utterly lose their shit.

This potential update would also make many people completely and utterly lose their shit. People who've put their time, money and effort into this place to get high stat lions are going to feel put upon, singled out. People like me who don't care about stats (besides having a relatively high stat king so I don't get shit stat cubs) are probably also gonna be miffed - because wow, now we got a complex thing that needs a fricking guide to wrap your head around.

Simplicity is beautiful. Making things complex leads to headaches and frustration.



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Myr (#188)


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Posted on
2016-08-06 07:40:07
I have to agree with cake, above. "Simplicity is beautiful. Making things complex leads to headaches and frustration."

Stats, in some shape or form, have been a part of Lioden since the very beginning. They're a simple, easy to learn system that actually gives everyone a pretty level playing field. The criticism that there is too much of a gap between leaderboard stats and new players is actually pretty far from the truth, in my opinion.

Since stats were tweaked last time, I've seen many new players (those who make the effort and want to focus on stats) gain thousands of stats with subs and lionesses in a matter of weeks/months. It's exactly the same for everyone - put in the time, effort and in some cases money, and you will gain stats. Simple. It's the same for everyone, old and new. It's actually a lot harder to maintain high stats over multiple generations than it is for new players (or older ones just getting into stats) to get initial lions up to decent stats. So that argument about new players having no chance to catch up doesn't really fly for me.

Lioden is already a big game, with so many features and aspects to gameplay already. And that's a good thing, it keeps people interested. But there's a fine line between keeping things interesting and making stuff so complicated that players become frustrated, lose interest and drift away. Sure, that stat system isn't and probably never will be 'perfect' - in fact I'm not sure I've ever seen any system on a comparable game that is. But to overhaul it completely after 4 years of using (broadly) the same system seems ridiculous to me. Sure, it will probably continue to need subtle tweaks and improvements as the game evolves, but to just throw our toys out of the pram because it doesn't work exactly how every single person wants is completely the wrong approach, in my opinion.

Let's work with and improve what we already have, not set up an extremely complex and unnecessary new system of gameplay after all this time.



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Edited on 06/08/16 @ 14:42:11 by ☕ Myriad (side) (#188)

FelixVulpes #Gaggle (#6196)

Bone Collector
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Posted on
2016-08-06 07:45:05
I like the idea of a skill set in ability and levelling e.t.c but I can't see it being accepted very well XD there'd at least need to be quite a bit of warning to allow people who put a lot of effort, time and money into stat building to plan their next heirs differently (those who stat build for the purpose of their studs being popular and getting some beetles back)



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😸 Chonk 😸 (#54568)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2016-08-06 13:59:01
No support.

I dont see where there is a huge issue with the current stat system. All you would need to do is have a system with tiers. For instance, 0-100 stats is one strength tier, 101-300 another, 301-600 another, etc. I know of a few game sites with this system and it works well.

Your system, by having a ceiling, would make the game seem very dull. It would be the same thing, king after king. I would compare it to communism, in that there is no real reward for excelling. Just reach a standard, and thats it.

Stat breeders bring in major income for the site. Perhaps more than any other type of player, per capita.

Stat breeding with no ceiling is exciting. This is obvious because people do it, even when there is no gameplay related reward. Why would you want to take that away? It is a visible measure of how much effort you put into the game, and how successful you are. It makes things competitive-without stats, there really isnt anything for players who like competition.



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Fizzlepop (#49710)

Majestic
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Posted on
2016-08-06 15:46:20
No support.

TL;DR - I'm a salty old lass who doesn't like change or things being made easier for people who don't/can't/won't put in as much effort as others do, and this all reminds me of "No Child Left Behind" (those of us who suffered through that know how well that worked out).



I'm not one for huge, complex changes. I like things to stay relatively close to what they are, it's a comfort I enjoy. I honestly hated sitting and reading through your suggestion, just because it was so long and had some many things to follow, but I forced myself to do it. Starting Lioden without any help can be confusing as it is, why add a system that's even more confusing after four years of the same idea? A change like this would annoy the hell out of me, it's something else I have to learn/figure out that these days I just have zero time for -- and a huge majority of people on this site are the same way. Your idea suggests the site is complete and done with major updates, but it's not, the game is still in Beta. We've been told that down the road "something" will be done with stats. What are apparently "useless" features (why are they useless, again? Seriously. I have no idea what features you're calling useless, and maybe that's because I'm aware that the staff is working on making whatever is useless not useless?) now may not be so once other things are implemented. Until that something is revealed, I don't think entirely new systems should be worked on when there are other things that need attention. Of course no new system will fix the gap, but isn't that the point? Users here worked hard and spent time and/or money to get their lions as they are. If a newbie wants to reach that level, they can do the same exact thing.

Stats actually do something. They control a large part of the market. They give people goals to beat, and things to reach for. Like Locust said, stats are a source of income. Lions with higher stats are worth more than lions with rolled/ncl stats. While they're mostly aesthetic at the moment, it has uses in that they to motivate people to play. Just because (to you) they currently have no in-game value other than visual doesn't really call for a new, lengthy, and rather confusing addition, which, might be rendered useless by the time whatever has been promised to be fixed/implemented with stats comes to light. Not to mention this would be a rather complex thing to code, test, implement, do art for, the whole nine yards.

What would the point of even being a newbie and oldie with this system? Following your logic here, what about the marking system? Rare mutations? There's a gap between newbies and oldies there, as well. Why don't we come up with a new and overly complex breeding system that would make those easier to acquire, or start a newbie out with a king that has multiple event markings and a rosette, since markings have no use other than visual pleasure? Why not just give event items out for free, with no effort involved in getting them, since newbies can't easily acquire them without putting in time and effort or spending money?







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Edited on 07/08/16 @ 14:27:44 by Lassie (#49710)

RD II 12k Quad Rose
-PM 37659 (#37730)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2016-08-06 16:55:08
Most points have already been covered by the likes of Locust and Lassie. But I'm going to take a shot here to. I did not support this for the reason there is a cap, as Locust said you will end up with a bunch of Lions with all the same 'point' levels and nothing much to motivate them to level past that.... honestly, I'd far rather a system that implements stats to have a use (Which has been promised at some stage), rather than a capped system.... there's no competition then, which is frankly quite boring to those who are competitive players.

As Lassie pointed out, Stats in their own way do have a use, maybe not in gameplay, but in the economy. Marking values start high, then drop and drop as they're bred more and more and rinse repeat with each new mark/mutation. Stats however are semi stable in value (provided the LB studs are priced fairly and not to cheaply, stats somewhat retain their value). I know of many players who breed to LB kings then sell the cubs as a source of income.

Also the lack of ability for their to be any improvement in the next generation. Many people on LD aim to improve the next generation of lions when breeding for stats, aiming to up their base line of stats passed on etc. You want to render stats forever useless, then implement a system that ensures the market will eventually stagnate? . That is essentially what will happen, people will get their lions to their highest amount of 'points' and have to start over with the next generation... no improvement, just the same thing over and over with no chance of bettering their next generation. Again boring, and lessening peoples motivation.

Reality is, we were all newbies once. Yet there are still many, many active players on LD. We all made it through hard work. Leveling the playing field between oldies and newbies means less to aim for after a while of playing.

tldr?
- Stats have a purpose in the economy.
- Rendering stats forever useless is a no no. There's supposedly a system in the works, be patient. LD is technically beta still.
- There is a cap, therefore lessening the motivation of active players to try to better others and set higher goals for their next generation/king etc.






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Tosca [Clean
Interstellar] (#75103)


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Posted on
2016-08-06 19:29:34
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Lex 🦋 (#56485)

Divine
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Posted on
2016-08-07 01:09:26
This thread more like
aapartystraight_a_student.gif



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Fawn (#3654)

Deathlord of the Jungle
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Posted on
2016-08-07 02:33:52
I like the idea of adding ability's but I think they should work WITH stats and not on there own point system. I also see no need to balance the gap between old and new players.



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