Posted by [++] The Ability System

Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-08 20:54:29

The Ability System

- balance for gameplay

After many changes in the gameplay, the way the battles and the new claiming system works, I think there could be a small addition, which shows our hard work and affects our progress a lot more than stats.

So, I propose a new system.


The Ability System

Description:
This system would be completely independent of stats.
So, the lions could use abilities in either fighting, charming, or exploring to make them more successful. These abilities would depend on points, level, skill, and karma.

How it works in short:

There would be a total of 10 abilities in fighting, 3 for charming, and 5 for exploring. (these can be changed)
Each ability appears at the aforementioned situations which then can be used to gain advantage.
Each ability will need points to have a potential efficiency, skill to reach the true efficiency, and karma, which determines your ability arsenal.

Points:
Points can be used to make an ability better and be performed with a greater success rate. It is never 100% though. In total 10 points can be added to one ability to reach its max potential, which would be performed at 90-95% efficiency.

Points can be earned by:
- Leveling (2 points - maybe rarely 3 points) - 31 levels give 62 points
- Visiting for 12 consecutive days (1 point) max 16 points
- Fighting NPCs (a 10% chance for 1 point)
- Claiming lionesses (a 5% chance for 1 point)
- Reaching the next karma level (1 point) -only once each karma level - max 34 points
- Filling Dreamboat Impression bar (1 point?)

Max 180 points can be assigned entirely.

Level:
Level is mainly used to earn points. Each time you level, you earn 2-3 points, so leveling will become a greater desire to players. It also –just like now- raises the limit of skill you can earn.

Skill:
Skill would determine how much % of the points you have will be counted in per ability. After all, the points only determine the potential efficiency of an ability. So if you have 10 points in one ability, but have barely any skill, then a low % of these points will be counted into the performed ability, so it still can fail, despite the high success rate.
This would also depend on your level, considering the limit on the skill.

Eg.:
Level 20 lion has 10 points in one ability, so has technically 90-95% chance to succeed, but has only 120 skill (so half of the max of that level), he would end up with 45-50% success at an ability if performed.

Level 2 lion has 10 points in one ability, so has technically 90-95% chance to succeed, but has only 12 skill (so half of the max of that level), he would end up with 45-50% success at an ability if performed.

(Although, the last would be impossible, due to the point distribution, but it shows well, that low level, even new players will not be at great disadvantage)

Karma:
Karma would ultimately determine what kind of fighting abilities your lion can have.
They could be put into two groups: Good Karma abilities, Bad Karma abilities.
(Each would contain 5 abilities)
Obviously, if you have positive karma, then you will end up with the former.
If you have neutral Karma… then you can have both groups, so it pays off the effort to keep a neutral Karma, and Cleansing Ichor would be used more frequently.
However!
Pay attention!

‘More’ doesn’t always mean ‘better’.

How would this work?
Every lion starts out with a set of 10 fighting abilities, 3 charming abilities, and 5 exploring abilities, due to having neutral Karma. All abilities would have no points within them.
Upon starting the game with a lion (be it starter or heir) you get 5 points to start out with, which you can distribute wisely among the 18 abilities.

From there, the game starts. Leveling, fighting, maybe even attacking other lions could give you points, which you can wisely put into your chosen abilities. You can either work for a positive, negative, or neutral Karma, which will modify the arsenal of abilities in fighting.

NPC fights:
Once entering battle, you can choose between the specific amount of abilities in an attack depending on your karma. There would be HP for both you and your opponent, just like right now. The success of the battle may depend on your abilities.

PVP fights:
The bonus abilities (see below) that you can gain from the ability system affect PVP. This would be one thing that could be connected to the ability system and a goal to set for players to unlock the special passive abilities for their lions in each generation.

Claiming Lionesses:
Once you click ‘Claim her’, you will be brought onto the claiming page.

There, your Charming abilities are listed, which you can use to either boost your chances or reduce the temper of the lioness. Maybe there could be a passive ability, which lets you start with an extra heart or two in the bar.

Exploring:
Instead of just the explore button, there would be abilities listed right along with it, which you can choose to perform every 4 hours (or once a day). They will help you with exploring upon activation.

Eg.: One ability could help you find quest items, another that lets you find more resting places, perhaps another that increases or decreases enemy encounters.

What about Lionesses?
I had two ideas for this.

a) They get no abilities or points.

b) They would have their own set of abilities. Hunting abilities. They can have a chance of gaining points after each successful hunt, and get 2-3 points after each level-up. These would be passive abilities, so always active.

List of Abilities
Note: This can be changed, altered, these are just suggestions, taken from this thread or thought out on my own or they already exist. All damage of an ability falls back on your lion if it failed.

Fighting Abilities:
(The more points you put into an ability, the less chance there is to miss -but cannot overwrite the written-down limit- OR the more damage/protection the ability gives)
Negative Karma-
- Suffocate - 30% damage
- Scratch limbs - 20% damage
- Roar of Fury - Gives + 10% damage to next attack - Opponent freezes/ Fail ends in you receiving 10% damage (+ damage done by opponent?)
- Neck bite - 20% damage, has a 30% chance of breaking opponent’s neck, so ending the fight
- Last Stand - When your lion reaches 20% or less health, he can attack out of turn once. Does 40% damage at 40% chance of success.

Positive Karma-
- Intimidating Roar - 10% damage - Opponent freezes
- Dominating - 20% damage - 30% chance of Opponent getting intimidated and flees
- Thick Skin - Receive 10% less damage at next turn - Guaranteed (+ Can use another ability?)
- Bluff Charge - 20% damage
- Last Stand - When your lion reaches 20% or less health, he can sound a thundering roar, which has a 40% chance of sending the opponent fleeing.

Charming Abilities:
(The more points you add to an ability, the more chance there is that the lioness will like the move)
- Apedamek's Blessing - Adds 1-2 hearts to the claiming bar.
- Right of the King - Removes 2-3 temper from the bar
- Prince Charming - Adds an extra heart to each of your moves in this claiming attempt.

Exploring Abilities:
(The more points are put into an ability, the more clicks the ability lasts -but not more than what is written down)
- Catnip/Flower Bath - adds 20% more chance to find NCLs and feline opponents for the next 30 clicks.
- Mark Territory - reduces the NPC encounter by 20%, adds 20% chance to finding carcasses and items. Lasts 30 clicks.
- Lazy Cat - Rest 30% more times to gain more energy. Lasts 20 clicks.
- Sneaky Raccoon - Find 40% more carcasses for the next 20 clicks.
- Focus - Adds 30% chance to finding quest items/NPCs for the snake. Lasts 30 clicks.

Hunting Abilities: - For Lionesses
- Power - The more points it contains, the more % chance it adds for bigger carcasses despite level/skill
- Lone Hunter - The more points it contains, the more % chance it adds for this lioness to bring back +1 smaller carcass from a hunt
- etc…
If Roles for Lionesses are brought in, there can be abilities specifically for those roles.

Important Notes:
- Do not ask for stats to affect the abilities. They wouldn’t.
- Submales should only gain up to 120 skill in their patrols to prevent huge advantages.
- Ability points are not inherited, just like skill, Karma, and level. The perfect way to balance gameplay between oldies and newbies.
- Points for Karma levels are only given out once. Eg. If you reached Dreamboat of Ladies and got the points, then you use the ichor to reset your Karma, you will not get points again for the level scale. (in one lion's lifetime)
- Upon switching from positive to negative Karma, or vice versa, the points you already put into the opposite ability will not vanish but will be saved to when you get back to that karma.
- Enables tactical thinking
- Effort of an individual would be shown in three ways instead of one: stats, points, maxed abilities
- No GB items that give you points, please...
- Suits all playerstyles: PVP players, PVE players get something to do, and breeders for looks can keep breeding for looks.
-----------------------------------

New Additional Ideas



1.) Bonus Passive Abilities
After maxing out the abilities of one section (fighting, exploring, charming), you could maybe get a bonus passive ability as a reward for that section. These abilities would be of course more valuable, since they are rewards, and would be always affecting your gameplay.

Suggestions:
Fighting ability -
Negative Karma: Beast - Deliver 5% more damage per attack
Positive Karma: Paladin - Receive 5% less damage per attack

Charming ability - Dreamboat: Start claiming by the bar already having 25% filling

Explore ability - Voyager: Receive 10% more exp OR receive additional explore steps

I also had the idea, that perhaps after collecting each of these bonus abilities, you could have one reward ability for it, called 'The King of the Jungle'. I am not sure what it would do though. Unlocking this ability will be practically impossible, so it could do pretty badass things.
----------------------------------
This idea is highly in development, and am free to suggestions. Give your own opinion.

Thanks.




This suggestion has 209 supports and 96 NO supports.



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Edited on 15/04/17 @ 13:33:35 by Axel (#6627)

Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 19:49:56
Olympic athletes carry the genes of being good in that sport from the start. It has nothing to do with what you achieve in your lifetime. Hence why their descendants have the chance too. Just as their ancestors had it.

This is how in lioden it works at the moment:
You get a starter lion. This is supposed to be its starter genetics. A simple lion. This is what it should give to its offspring. However, as it grows stronger, just like its mate, they give birth to muscled children, who just have to carry on what their father and mother did and not restart their development.

Is this natural? No. This isnt how genetics work.

In real life you inherit a base genetics -starter lion- and the potential to be good in the Olympics. You are not born with muscles on your legs that would put a grown man to shame. You are born weak, and only with the potential and with the right training you can indeed reach what your father in running could.



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Timothy (AS) (#18706)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 20:00:06
Axel, actually things achieved through your lifetime can be carried on to children, that is how it works in animals too, it all depends on what you breed between the parents, if you take a well built mare and add a strong stallion, you get a foal with a mix of both characteristics, now horses are not always born strong, they need to be trained to be fit, and they do pass that on to offspring.



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Mysticashes (#26903)


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Posted on
2014-04-20 20:00:59
Well I am sure they can find a way to work with the current system.

Why does inheriting stats instantly mean that stats can't have uses? What if lions could only use the amount of stats gain in their life time? Meaning stats would still be inheritable to show the amount of work of past generations but only gained stats would have uses? Kind of like your point idea but without losing solid progression every time you retire. Possibly have a different use for born stats then gained stats.

Your point system is fine, I have seen pretty similar systems on other sites but I think it would be better to work with what is already made and think outside of the box.

Maybe have a use for inborn stats that are only useful till the cud becomes an adult (something that wouldn't effect much, like a "cub play date" once a day that would work like a raffle using each stat as a ticket and have a set amount of stats given out each day (or maybe not even stats, maybe skill or items like feathers) yes higher stated cub would have a better chance but it would be random, peoples hard work giving them a chance at winning something simple and if there is only say 100 prizes (whatever they might be) being spread out to who knows how many cubs it is not like having really high stats is going to help that much)

Then once the lion becomes an adult the gained stats would be used for PVP and NCL things meaning every lion starts at 0 (or low if stats are given in the cub raffle thing, just an example) meaning only the current work would count much like your point system but the gained stats would be added to the inborn stats for breeding the next generation.

This is just a random idea I though up in about two minutes that would allow for inheritable stats and uses for them so it most likely sucks but it shows that if you think outside of the box just a little I am sure the staff will think of a way to make it work. I mean they have put quite a bit of work into stats already, to just throw it all away would be just a waste of time and money for lioden.

You do have some good ideas with your point system but quite a few seem to be...lacking? No that is not the right way to put it but I mean I don't see the idea as a whole as something I could support because of two main things.

The throwing away of the stats and recoding of a completely new system.

And,

The resetting every time your lion retires. It would be the same as having a stat reset every year and people clearly don't like the idea of stat resets.



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Timothy (AS) (#18665)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 20:07:05
Oh by the way just to point out how boring the game will be if every time your lion dies you have to do the same thing over again and get exactly the same. Also if people like the idea of starting over so much, perhaps just reroll your lion everytime he is due to retire.



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StarrieSkye *DDA* (#18637)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 20:13:48
Admin edit - due to content not allowed on Lioden: please don't discuss other web-browsing sim games!



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 20:21:58
Timothy:
They pass on the potential, but not the muscles themselves developed as their parent's. So you say, that if your father is a runner and won the Olympics and had you after, you would be born with muscles and could win the Olympics at just the age of 14 without any training? No. You have to train just as hard as your father to achieve this same potential.

And about horses: It is in their genetics from their ancestors, and after that, it also depends on training. The horses are not born as champions either. Without training, you can just send it to a circus ._.


Mysticashes:
What if lions could only use the amount of stats gain in their life time? Meaning stats would still be inheritable to show the amount of work of past generations but only gained stats would have uses? Kind of like your point idea but without losing solid progression every time you retire. Possibly have a different use for born stats then gained stats.
Now this would be confusing... Why would we need to record it if you cannot use it anyway for anything? You can show off your lion in your Dynasty and its progress. Although, for this they would need to make the Dynasty public.

I dont quite understand the whole raffle thing. It only gives more stats and skill, basically did not help anything with the stat problem, especially if skill itself gains more uses. People would not give away their stats if they get the chance for simple items.

I mean they have put quite a bit of work into stats already, to just throw it all away would be just a waste of time and money for lioden.
Collecting stats while they have no true foothold in the game and have no uses is a risk. It is a risk that people were willing to take. And this risk might mean that they get to be only something to show off and get no uses. Well, with my idea stats could stay and be shown off, only that you could not use them for anything. Which means that nothing changes in your game. Only that a new system comes along.

You do have some good ideas with your point system but quite a few seem to be...lacking?
Could you please explain to me what it is lacking? What doesnt make it whole? Maybe the two of us can do something about it.

Everyone else:
If you have any idea that could be used with inheriting with this system, feel free to suggest. I had first the thought of making the passive abilities I posted above inheritable, but then that would not be such a reward to get each generation...

I know that people would like the not inheritable trait, but for the love of the god, suggest. Suggest things. Suggest how stats can get uses in PVE, exploring, and claiming without making it too easy or too hard. because this repeating 'i dont like that I need to restart' quickly becomes an invalid argument, since there are no suggestions to back you up. If you have ideas that the staff can use, share it, please.



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Mysticashes (#26903)


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Posted on
2014-04-20 20:34:02
My silly two minute idea that was just an example of how stats could be used and be inheritable was basically that the stats a cub are born with would have one use (like the random raffle but it could be anything that didn't rely on the amount of stats to work) and stats gained after they become an adult would be used for fighting and claiming. Your point system does very similar with the adult lion gaining points to put on abilities with no impact from breeding. Using only gained stats is like the same idea only different is that the inborn stats (the stats cubs are born with) and gained stats (stats lions gain from like patrolling) would add together for breeding. But like I said this was just an example.

Lacking was not the right word as I said I just wasn't sure how else to put it. I think it is a bit lacking because it isn't a system that would make a lot of people happy meaning either it needs to be changed a bit or that something fundament about it just wouldn't work for the long run.

I think your main problem is the complete resetting and loss of progression in your new point system. And that you want to get rid of a part of the site that many people really like. What my example was trying to get across (sorry I am really bad at explaining things) was an idea that sort of combined your new system with part of the old system.



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Edited on 21/04/14 by Mysticashes (#26903)

Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 20:48:32
And that you want to get rid of a part of the site that many people really like.

I never said I want to get rid of a part of the site. I have left the choice to the developers to get rid of stats entirely or not. I really dont care what happens to stats. They can be kept if the developers deem it good enough, and you can still keep collecting it, the leaderboard can be kept and show off the stats you gained. This is why I said that the gameplay of stats would not change at all with the new system. They can stay inheritable and grow all they like with generations. Only that they indeed wont change and the game will depend instead on another system. The stats themselves would not suffer from it.

Excluding if the developers decide to remove them.

Hell, people can have back random statting and can battle one another with their numbers, who has the highest, etc. Only that they would be just as useful as now. meaning, in gameplay useless. So you will have something to inherit. Stats. The points however would reset.

Hell, we could even keep stats and make them only useful in PVP. Have stats useful in PVP, implementing attacks that depend on stats, but PVE, NPC fights, claiming and exploring could have the system of abilities. Everyone will be happy?



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Timothy (AS) (#18665)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 20:56:25
Axel> what I meant is why do the new generations of Olympic athletes shatter the former generation's records? because they are born with more potential than the former genertation.



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 21:16:05
Eh, what? Normally athletes arent truly the descendants of those who were Olympic winners either. So... Yeah. I guess they simply have better genetics from the start. And of course there are always new ways to train, development in the department of training from childhood and new ways to use and eat help with raising one's limits and achieving better results than those with an outdated training plan.

But again, the problem isnt that stats can be raised. The problem is that babies are not born with muscles that can kill an average man. They are born with the base muscles, which they can train later. When they have kids, their own children will be born with the bse muscle again, which then they need to train the same to achieve the potential of their own ancestor.

See the difference? It is one thing to have the potential and another to be born with the muscles of a grown man without any training. No matter how good your father was at running in the Olympics, you still need to train just as much to reach his level. You wont be born with ready muscles to compete. You have to build up.



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Edited on 21/04/14 by Axel (#6627)

Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-20 21:41:17

New Additional Ideas



2.) Stat-dependent PVP
Maybe stats can be kept for male lions and because indeed PVP is a battle between players, players who can also grow their own stats and compete, I think stats can be made use here.

- Implement attacks that depend on your stats. The best one I could think of is what was suggested on the meeting. The more stats a lion has, the more effective it will be without any upper limit.
Eg.: The more stamina you have, the more Health you have for PVP. The more strength your lion has, the more damage their hits make. etc.

- The bonus abilities that you can gain from the ability system affect PVP. This would be one thing that could be connected to the ability system and a goal to set for players to unlock the special passive abilities for their lions in each generation.

- Lift the level limit at PVP and instead make the range of attackable lions stat-based. So level would have nothing to do with PVP, instead there would be a given range of stats you can attack lions. Thus avoiding unfair fights between very low and very high statted lions. It makes no sense anyway.

-This way it will be a lot easier to see who we can fight and win against without frustration.

- There should be an ability to gain specific stats. So we can work for fighting tactics.

- How it would work: Once you attack another player, the same window as in NPC fights appear, listing your attack moves and defense moves and your health, where the effect of them will be dependent on how many stats you have. Do not misunderstand, the other player is not needed for the PVP fight.

The effectiveness of your attacks depends on your opponent's stats and their defense which will depend on their stats or a combo of stats. Feel free to suggest attack and defense moves.



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Peach2milk (#4673)

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Posted on
2014-04-21 09:34:46
i like that idea alot. that way it would give something to work for which is what keeps me playing this game to be honest :) sorry for the late reply i have been really busy lol. hope you have a wonderful weekend! was warm here.



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Roaming
TigressXyless (#23302)

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Posted on
2014-04-26 08:32:35
I support. Sounds very involving, which I like.



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Doed (#32367)


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Posted on
2014-04-26 21:40:02
(I don't have read everything, sorry for that. But on this moment no time so I only read the first page :P)

I am a new player. I don't really mind that players that are longer here, have great stats. The stats of my lions is just low and stuff, but that's normal. What I do like, is the idea to make the stats count for something.
That's fun and interactive. I don't know if you have to put karma in it, don't try to make it in one turn totally different. Lions are killers, it's not that a lion can choose to eat a plant or a calf ;)

Alsof I think that if an heir dies, you deserve some bonus points. Because if you always have to do it over and over and over again. When you don't get anything for that, It isn't worth it. People need something to play longer than just 3 lions.
You can use the pathfinder idea, use stats to make yourself better. But I wouldn't use too MANY stats.
Strength
Muscle power! Affects your chance to strike a foe with melee attacks and damage.

Dexterity
Coordination and agility! Affects your primary defenses, ability to dodge attacks (Reflex saves), and the accuracy of your ranged attacks.

Constitution
Health (hit points)! Constitution lets you suffer more damage before dying, and improves your ability to endure physical strain (Fortitude save). Keeping this Ability Score at 14 is encouraged, even if you're making a character who isn't a melee style. Brave adventurers sometimes use 12.

Intelligence
Learning ability and reasoning! Affects skill points gained at each level and the amount of bonus spell points for some classes.

Wisdom
Willpower and intuition! Affects your willpower (Will save) and the amount of bonus spell points for some classes.

Charisma
Personality and magnetism! Determines how well you influence non-player characters (NPCs) and affects the amount of bonus spell points for some classes.

(But of course not in this use. Because this game is really different. and stuff. This is just an example ;P That there is maybe an idea to don't have too many and just standard. Some that affect more things instead of only one small thing)

But the other things I like a lot. With how to claim the lionesses and everything that you wrote down!

P.s. I'm not english, so maybe I haven't read everything the right way. Sorry if i understand some things the wrong way :)



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Axel (#6627)

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Posted on
2014-04-26 21:49:19
@Puzzlette
The main reason why I dont wish for PVE, explore, claiming and NPC fights to be dependent on stats is not because 'others can have more', the problem is that everyone can have more. And the enormous gap between new and active players. There are more than 6000 stat differences which would make the whole feature useless and pointless. It would either be too easy for high statted lions or too hard for low statted ones.

In order to implement uses to something, it needs to have a base value as well, something they can base the uses off of.
You idea for example:
If damage is indeed dependent on your strength, and it will do more damage if you have more stats in strength, then people will start quickly one-hit killing NPCs and one-action claiming NCLs later... After all, as the generations come and go, lions are born with better stats, inheriting it, thus enabling greater and greater growth, this doesnt make it to the best way to deal with the explore, claiming and NPC fights, since these features cannot 'gain stats' and cannot adjust themselves to the growth.

This is also why I wouldnt like for points to be inheritable. These skills your lion has to learn from the start of his role as a king. Stats would be PVP only, so they would play a role still, since other players can indeed adjust their own stats overtime. NPCs, features of the game however cannot.



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Edited on 27/04/14 by Axel (#6627)







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