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Atm you have to retire you main to put your sub up for breeding etc, i like the idea of having several males within the pride to choose from before your sub is almost ready to retire as well & LOVE the idea of being able to change out which 1 is the King a few times over a months period of time on a regular basis.

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Wow so many supports, I appreciate all the feedback and supprot for my ideas guys. :3

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Support.

I hate having a pretty sub male, imagining all the pretty cubs, but not ever being able to breed him with my girls. D:

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Do not forget that submales were implemented to make sure you have another male around once your male retires. There were complaints before this, that it was hard to manage to have a male cub at the time when your male dies. THIS is why the slots were introduced.

And no, your submale isnt a co-leader of your pride. he is the future king, your heir. His sole purpose is to gain stats until the time comes when he takes over. He cannot breed until he becomes king. That is all.

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I don't see a problem in having them breed before becoming "king". It happens in real life when multiple males lead a pride called a collation as stated previously in this thread. I don't see why it'd be such a big deal considering how this game likes to be somewhat 'realistic'.

If I have a sub male with nice markings that I like I'll have to loose the markings when I retire my main male when he retires and reuse his image. Because my main male is a custom that I I paid /real money/ for. And I will not be loosing what I paid for. This leaves me in a bind doesn't it though? I have no way so using my sub male's current markings and colors before they'll be written over. And that's not fair at all.

As it stands now my current sub male will be useless, age and retire with no offspring. The 1k SB it took to buy him before I was aware of how retiring works will be wasted. Because I'd like a lion of my current male's bloodline to become heir and take over. So more or less my current sub male will be useless.

It's the whole reason I stopped playing for months honestly, so my lions wouldn't age until something was done. I was hoping the 200+ supported would've gathered attention from staff by now?

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As I said, your submale is NOT the co-leader. It is not a coalition. He is your heir. So, not a leader, thus he has no right to breed. Only once he takes over.

And this is where smarts comes in when choosing a submale. Either only choose one when your male is older, however you cannot patrol with him much, or choose him halfway through your main's life and you can patrol, gain skills, then when he takes over he will have nice stats. You can go ahead and breed a new heir then. Think about a tactic nicely. I myself was around when the submale system was introduced and I understood how it goes. It is a different story that you didnt pay attention or didnt read thoroughly.

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"As I said, your submale is NOT the co-leader. It is not a coalition. He is your heir. So, not a leader, thus he has no right to breed. Only once he takes over."

Please point me in the direction of an article of lion documents/reports or information regarding a grown mature male staying within a pride as a 'heir' that is not a collation. Thankyou. c: Because as far I have read and know new leadership is usually take by dominance and fighting, not heirs.

Quote from the Wiki (though I know the wiki sometimes can't be reliable):

"The pride usually consists of five or six females, their cubs of both sexes, and one or two males (known as a coalition if more than one) who mate with the adult females (although extremely large prides, consisting of up to 30 individuals, have been observed). The number of adult males in a coalition is usually two, but may increase to four and decrease again over time. Male cubs are excluded from their maternal pride when they reach maturity."

"Subadult males on the other hand, must leave the pride when they reach maturity at around 2–3 years of age"

I do however respect your opinion.

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Normally males dont even stay in the pride. Dont come with the wiki to me about this. I know how a coalition goes, however in this game -as it was implemented- the submale is your heir, not the co-leader, as the name 'submale' is suggesting. This is why he has no other uses, just to gain stats as you prepare him to become king when you can start breeding him. The submale is not a co-leader, neither is he part of a coalition. he doesnt defend your territory with you, doesnt fight NPCs doesnt do anything else but 'trains' to become your next main. He is too low in rank to even think about ladies. He is patrolling all day.

Not only would this trash the market sooner than you can say 'cub', but it would make breeding for stats extremely easy and fast.

1. you breed a male cub with good enough stats.
2. age him to adol, then use the SB item to age him to adult.
3. use this submale to breed to another high level lioness
4. breed an even higher statted cub, chase the old submale, then age this cub to become submale, then breed him to another lioness to have an even higher statted male etc etc etc it goes on.
Easy, needs not much work, needs no effort at all. Just breed and use this system to their fullest.

Just another thought on this one.

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No need to be rude, goodness.

"Normally males dont even stay in the pride."

That's my point, how else would an adult male get in a pride and stay there other then:

A) Defeating and overthrowing the previous leader
B) Over claiming a pride with other males in a coalition

I sort of see where you're coming from, but honestly there are options listed in the thread about how to avoid hurting the 'market'. And I don't feel many people would go about or take the time to do that, it'd be too much money for most. They'ed need not only GB if aging from a cub, but 500 SB to go beyond that.


You're exactly right though, the sub male currently has no other uses. Why not change that? It'd give them a use, no? Just because something was implemented one way doesn't mean it /has/ to stay that way forever does it?

Rather then point out the flaws, what do you feel could work with or make the idea better?

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I like this idea. I wouldn't personally use it, I don't think, but it's more realistic to have your submale be part of a coalition than to have him just hang out with your females and have your male be okay with it.

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Going off giving the submales breeding capabilities within your pride only, why not make all submale breedings result in only one cub?

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Thankyou for the support uwu and that's a good idea too, I like that. Could be a way to help keep from overflooding the market- more then it already is x)

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Just so you know, perhaps you didnt realize it or didnt intend to, but you also sounded rather rude in your previous reply. I simply gave it back. I am a 'how you do to me, I so do to you' type of person. Match the tone of my conversation partner.

Anyway...

What you are talking about is how real life goes. However, sadly, Lioden is not real life and submale slot was introduced for a completely different reason and not to mae a coalition or to beat the main male with them. Let me explain to you once more in detail and in points, starting from the very beginning:

1. Before the submale slot, the only way you could retire your male was that you managed to have a male cub in your territory below 2 years when he died, thus making it hard to achieve, many would have ended up being forced to reroll their lion and start over.

2. Staff in reply to the many complaints regarding to this, decided to put in the submale slot in order to give a chance for people to retire their male safely and have a heir in their territory when this happens.

3. As such they were never meant to be co-leaders, in a coalition or breed. Their sole purpose is to be the heir. Nothing more.

4. They gain stats in order to be prepared for their future goal. You could say they are 'training' to be better.

5. As the heir of the leadership, they still have to completely bow to the wishes of the main male. because why is he the leader if all you want is breed with the submale because he is prettier and has better stats. he is the leader, thus he is the one to breed with the females. The submale has to wait patiently until he becomes king and can breed finally. All you need is the keyword for this game:
Patience.
Many seem to lack this.
-----------------------------------
What would be the effects of submale breeding:

1. Extremely hyper super uber fast stat gain.

2. Stats would mean nothing, easy to get through breeding.

3. You are underestimating the SB reserve of people. I myself could buy 55GB if I wanted to, and that all just by playing the game without trading, so they can spend that much to have a super statted male and lionesses.

4. What do you think would be the meaning of main male and submale if both can do the same things? People would ignore their mains and give more purpose to their subs, which is in turn not fair towards the main who is supposed to be the leader and hold the mating right in his paw solely for all the work and defending. While all the submale does is just sit around and patrol for fifteen minutes.... Doesnt that seem wrong to you?

5. Submales which are kept forever as subs can also breed. I mean those who are never ascending into main male status, but stay submale through their whole lives. They gain hyper super amazing stats at the end, and these hyper lions would actually end up breeding. In all these submales are no threat, since for the endless submale status they might gain stats, but they dont become main males so dont breed.

6. All in all because of stats and looks, people would ignore their mains, not using him the way he should be, but would treat their subs as the sole leader, breeding them for looks and stats.

7. Seen from the side of the developers: People wouldnt feel so tempted to pay the 10 GB retiring fee in order to get their submales to be main and finally breed if they can just.... breed them as submales.

Have patience. Your submale will become the main male eventually and can breed once he had even better stats.

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